Water in fuel

[Golfsupt]

Filled up tank at work. Drove car to parking lot 500 yards away. Left car running, ran to mail box and mailed a package. Came back to hear my car running roughly. Died while watching it. Come to find out had a hole in our fuel tank and there was a bunch of water in tank. Sent car to shop, they siphoned old gas out. Put 6 gals of new gas back in. Getting 1000psi of pressure at fuel rail and 100 psi on return. After multiple attempts at cycling the car will still not start. Telling me to send to ford dealer now. Are they missing something?

 

[luigisho]

There are alot of variables here. How much water in the gas? How much fluid still in the tank that was siphoned vs removing the tank and dumping and clearing it. Did they use chemical treatments in addition to fresh gas? High volume of water in gas can do a real number on everything in the fuel system and in rare cases beyond. Your car was running for a good bit with watery gas but hopefully a thorough combing through will resolve it without needing high replacement cost parts.
Check this out for a quick overview

https://itstillruns.com/happens-water-gets-fuel-tank-4914474.html

 

[Golfsupt]

There are alot of variables here. How much water in the gas? How much fluid still in the tank that was siphoned vs removing the tank and dumping and clearing it. Did they use chemical treatments in addition to fresh gas? High volume of water in gas can do a real number on everything in the fuel system and in rare cases beyond. Your car was running for a good bit with watery gas but hopefully a thorough combing through will resolve it without needing high replacement cost parts.
Check this out for a quick overview

https://itstillruns.com/happens-water-gets-fuel-tank-4914474.html

What next steps would you take to insure there is no more water in the tank? Anyway to drain the fuel rails?

 

[b4black]

Maybe unhook the fuel line going into the high pressure pump. Then cycle the ignition to see if it activates the in tank electric pump. (push start with foot off the brake.) This will push the water out of the filter and lines. (you'll still have water in the rails, but this will help)

If the pump doesn't activate, try finding the fuel pump relay and jumping it to turn on the pump.

The shop should have known to do this.

 

[luigisho]

Honestly I haven't seen this in a more complicated dual pump fuel system like this car has. If you read the article, the fuel filter can become water logged,, the fuel pump can become damaged, fuel injectors can become damaged etc. That's bad case scenario. You can test the gas in the tank and see how much water is in there. You'll have to look around. There are products like HEET and others. Check out these:
https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/2119/test-gasoline-for-water-content

 

[Golfsupt]

Maybe unhook the fuel line going into the high pressure pump. Then cycle the ignition to see if it activates the in tank electric pump. (push start with foot off the brake.) This will push the water out of the filter and lines. (you'll still have water in the rails, but this will help)

If the pump doesn't activate, try finding the fuel pump relay and jumping it to turn on the pump.

The shop should have known to do this.

Excuse my stupidity, by cranking the engine you are returning some fuel to the tank correct? So if there was water in the fuel lines the new gas that was put in could be being diluted with water again? So would siphoning out the tank and putting fresh fuel in again help? Would pulling the spark plugs and replacing help at all?

 

[luigisho]

I think maybe he was indicating that you could use the fuel pump to remove the gas by disconnecting the fuel line from the tank to the engine at the fuel filter and running the pump. I haven't looked at how deep the fuel pump intake is inside the tank, but water is heavier and sperates easily from gasoline. So getting the liquid out, especially near the bottom is important.
As far as spark plugs, I would pull some easy to access ones and take a look.

Cost can be a factor but there are pros that can do this much easier. In case you hit a wall and need this as a daily driver

 

[jman1200]

You need to be 100% sure the bad gas/water is completely drained out, I'd remove the tank or at least the fuel pump and siphon everything until you SEE there is nothing left. Add new gas. Disconnect the return to make sure whatever is in the line and rail doesn't go back in the tank, cycle the fuel pump.
Question is also how much water was in that gas? If the answer is "a lot", then I'd remove the spark plugs and crank it a few times. If you do this, clean very well the area to avoid dirt to go into the cylinders.
I once forgot to close the drain plugs on one of my Waverunners, it began sinking and I just barely got to shore when the engine died due to water ingestion. Took it out of the lake, removed the plugs, cranked it like 5 times 10-20 seconds each to remove the water (lots came out), placed plugs back and it started after a few attempts. Not saying it is the same but it should not be that hard to get your car running again assuming nothing went bad.

 

[Golfsupt]

I think maybe he was indicating that you could use the fuel pump to remove the gas by disconnecting the fuel line from the tank to the engine at the fuel filter and running the pump. I haven't looked at how deep the fuel pump intake is inside the tank, but water is heavier and sperates easily from gasoline. So getting the liquid out, especially near the bottom is important.
As far as spark plugs, I would pull some easy to access ones and take a look.

Cost can be a factor but there are pros that can do this much easier. In case you hit a wall and need this as a daily driver

What sucks it is at a "pro's" and he cant get it to start and is going to charge me for the labor anyways. Told me to send to ford dealer

 

[b4black]

Excuse my stupidity, by cranking the engine you are returning some fuel to the tank correct? So if there was water in the fuel lines the new gas that was put in could be being diluted with water again? So would siphoning out the tank and putting fresh fuel in again help? Would pulling the spark plugs and replacing help at all?

I didn't say to crank the engine (with the starter). You want to activate the electric fuel pump in the tank to push the new gasoline into the lines and push the water out the line disconnected a the high pressure pump.

I don't believe that these engines return fuel to the tank (I would think GDI is returnless). The HPFP only has one line in and one lineout.

You don't need to get 100% the water out. The ethanol in the new gasoline will absorb little bits left behind (to a point). Get as much out as you can and then get the new fuel to the cylinder. If the rail is full of water, then you'll need to either drain it out somehow, or crank until it passes thru.

The shop should know this - you may want to go elsewhere next time.

 

[luigisho]

What sucks it is at a "pro's" and he cant get it to start and is going to charge me for the labor anyways. Told me to send to ford dealer

oh boy. either this is too complicated or maybe they think something else related is beyond their capabilities. I don't understand why they can't but some people would rather pass things along when they get too difficult.

 

[jman1200]

You don't need to get 100% the water out. The ethanol in the new gasoline will absorb little bits left behind (to a point).

We need to know how much water is "a bunch".

 

[6500rpm]

Remove the rear seat cushion, remove the fuel pump assembly from the access under the seat, remove all the fuel from the tank. With the pump out you should be able too see water separation from the gasoline in the tank. Disconnect the hpfp feed line
and blow the line clear before reinstalling the pump in the tank. You're probably going to have some residual bad fuel in the hpfp and rail but it should clear fairly soon with some extended cranking if it doesn't start. Even though most fuel has 10% ethanol I'd still spike the first tank with heat additive. You might also want to do a battery disconnect (hard reset) to clear fuel trim values.

 

[Johnbigdog]

Remove the rear seat cushion, remove the fuel pump assembly from the access under the seat, remove all the fuel from the tank. With the pump out you should be able too see water separation from the gasoline in the tank. Disconnect the hpfp feed line
and blow the line clear before reinstalling the pump in the tank. You're probably going to have some residual bad fuel in the hpfp and rail but it should clear fairly soon with some extended cranking if it doesn't start. Even though most fuel has 10% ethanol I'd still spike the first tank with heat additive. You might also want to do a battery disconnect (hard reset) to clear fuel trim values.

If you're ingenious and lazy, add a lot of heat to the fuel. Disconect the low pressure fuel line to the high pressure pump and jump fused power and ground to the fuel pump and wait. Then fill with fresh fuel and wait. (Meaning till the system pumps itself dry)

If you remove the pump, be sure to remove both sending units. Our car has a saddle tank. The electric fuel pump uses some of the fuel it sends to the high pressure pump to a jet pump that moves fuel from one side of the saddle tank to the side with the electric pump. If you just siphoned the one side, you have the potential to leave the bad fuel in the other side.

I cant think of a newer Ford that is not returnless system. The fuel only has one direction to go, to the injectors.

 

[Golfsupt]

Well update. Car is at ford dealer. Changed fuel again, car atleast started. Misfire on number 2 cylinder, bad coil. Went ahead and did plugs, coil on number 2 cylinder, and changed oil. Car still running rough. Saying they are still getting a milky substance in fuel and want to change both high and low pressure pumps? All in all $4315. Whats your thoughts. They said they have ran the car a lot and ran plenty of fuel through it.

 

[luigisho]

Jesus. Well the worst case scenario is that water can damage fuel pumps and injectors. There is no way to know if they are toast or not from where I sit. Do they have data on fuel delivery that states that fuel pressure and volume is bad? That's a hefty price and those fuel pumps are expensive. You under warranty? That's alot of water

 

[Johnbigdog]

Jesus. Well the worst case scenario is that water can damage fuel pumps and injectors. There is no way to know if they are toast or not from where I sit. Do they have data on fuel delivery that states that fuel pressure and volume is bad? That's a hefty price and those fuel pumps are expensive. You under warranty? That's alot of water

Warranty only covers factory defect. The factory didnt put water in the fuel.

Insurance might get involved.

 

[Golfsupt]

Contacted insurance, will see if its covered due to me getting fuel from my workplace. First shop was saying I was getting 1000psi at the rail.

 

[b4black]

If the fuel is milky, it's still wet. Pump it out and refill again.

Wet fuel will misfire. No reason to change anything until the fuel is dry. They are wasting your money.

 

[luigisho]

Any update on this?