Update Shudder/Hesitation issue

[SHOdded]

The F150 is not the SHO. Some problems are similar however, at least on the surface.

Have you tried using race gas instead of pump gas, see if higher octane resolves the miss? Secured the knock sensor wiring? Even on 2013+, it can sometimes be an issue. Have you pulled the plugs to look at/smell them? Problem might be fuel related (pump, injector ...). Do you monitor fuel pressure and fuel trims?

One person that I know of on this forum says they have had success with tapping the CAC. Not that I recommend that. I would definitely have a plug on it that is removable for emptying purposes (maybe even a Fumoto if it can be secured). Do not leave open to the elements, that's for sure.

 

[John Miller]

I haven't checked plugs, as the car only has 20k miles. However, I acknowledge there might be some 'tell tale' signs there, so maybe I'll pull one today.

As for race fuel, I can't see going higher than 93 octane for my stock form, daily driver, and I wouldn't even know where to get such fuel in my area. As for fuel pressure and injectors, I have zero problem at heavy throttle or WOT, so I'm not inclined to go that direction -- though, again, I realize this might be the place to look after other possibilities are exhausted.

After some thought, I'm going to try sucking my CAC clean again. Will try using a brake bleeding kit. What's interesting, I had a really hard time getting a tube down to the bottom, as it felt like there was a gauntlet of obstructions. But, I was in a hurry at the time, and maybe a light and some careful, deliberate action might help.

Frankly, I doubt a dirty CAC is my problem, but it's worth trying cause nothing bad can come of having it clean. If a clean CAC fixes my problem, then I'll look to put a catch can in in an attempt to preclude any future issues.

Will report back . . . .

 

[rcryniak]

For sucking things out of places... I bought this Topsider pump... just in case... and it's already proven itself to be a very, very powerful and useful little sucker:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001445IZ8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

[SHO311]

Exactly the problem I was having!! Ford was able to duplicate the problem but never able to fix it 100%. They did a update on my computer twice and it only fixed the problem for a few days. Second they said it was my 91 octane I was using so I ran 87 for 6 months and the problem was still there. The last thing I noticed was when my roush CAI was on my car the shudder was even more so. I'm back to 91 octane with my tune on and stock intake back on and she's running really good. The shudder at low RPM going 47-55 MPH 100% is caused by temperature changes in the the air and humidity changes, then condensation and oil vapors build up in the intercooler and small amounts of water and oil vapors are sucked in your engine. I know this because I live in AZ and I only have the shudder problem during July-October our hottest most humid months of the year. I've done way too much reading on this problem this is the first I've heard of a 2015 having the shudder as Ford was suppose to fix this!!! What I went ahead and did was drill a small weep hole in the plastic part of my intercooler I think I used the 1/16 drill size I'm still waiting for summer to see if that fixed the problem the F-150 guys have the same problem I got this tip from the F-150 forums I have not noticed any issues since drilling the hole! BTW every other high performance turbo car has a weep hole or catch can system Ford went lazy on this one and now we get to pay the price. I wont buy another SHO until they take the ecoboost shudder more seriously. I would take your 2015 in and get a re flash done just to see if it works it has for some of us but not for me. Hope I helped sad to say but I'm officially the SHO shudder expert;(

 

[SHO311]

Sorry for not checking in that's where im at with the shudder not sure yet if fixed I need 95 plus days with 30% humidity,,,, but she's running like a bat out of **** at the moment !

 

[SHO311]

CAC is the problem and Ford knows it thats the sad thing. I need that powerful pump just to make sure she's clean one good way to make sure you get to the bottom is use tape and your dip stick tape it to the side of the hose make it rigid so you can get down to the bottom

 

[John Miller]

I was able to get the CAC emptied today when I performed an oil change. Used a brake bleeder, but hooked it to a shop vac rather than a hand pump. Made it easy to measure the fluids coming out . . .

There was exactly 1/2 ounce of oil there. No obvious signs of moisture/water. Funny that the dipstick showed nearly 1/2 inch of oil, but that equated to so little coming out in actuality. Afterwards, I confirmed a nearly dry dipstick, so I got 98% of it.

Don't think that was the issue, but at least I know the CAC is now clean. For argument's sake, Ill report back in a week on how the car is running.

 

[John Miller]

So, update with a better description . . . .

It is not so much a "miss" feel as a shudder/surge/vibration feel -- I originally interpreted what I was feeling as a miss, but that isn't it. Again, only under light acceleration in 6th gear, as when accelerating slowly from 50 MPH to 70 MPH. It is faint but there. It only happens in 6th -- it won't do it in other gears, even at the same RPM and same general conditions. If hit the throttle hard enough for it to gear down to 5th, the car is smooth and fast.

The dealer was not able to replicate the problem. I don't blame them -- all the highways around them are so bumpy, you wouldn't know the difference. The dealer said a computer check revealed no codes and no history of a single "miss." They did an upper intake cleaning as a courtesy, but it didn't change the problem.

The only thing I could find on the internet that was similar were posts about previous generation SHOs, and that they did this when needing a transmission flush. But, mine is a 2015 and has only about 20k miles on it, so I can't imagine a fluid change would do anything.

I"m leaning towards this being a tranny/differential/driveshaft type of issue, versus a miss with the engine or anything related to the CAC as was a previous theory.

Any theories?

 

[SHOdded]

Overdrive/TC lockup issues? Monitor the trans related PIDs to see if anything pops up. Never too early to check fluid level/condition in the PTU, but doesn't seem to be involved here. Check the stoich/lambda (fuel system), maybe it's running TOO lean?

 

[John Miller]

It's all stock, so can't imagine it is running lean.

When you say "monitor the trans related PIDs," are you saying to do that with an SCT X4 or something?


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[SHOdded]

Smartphone/tablet + OBD adapter + Forscan Lite will get you access to trans related PIDs, you can for example then see if the trans is going in & out of lockup in 6th gear.

Stock or tuned, underperforming injectors (stuck/clogged) or fuel rail or a bad O2 sensor (particularly Bank 2 upstream in these cars) could cause a lean condition. Hard to pinpoint the cause without data, there are many sensors and compensating mechanisms at play.

 

[John Miller]

I eventually would like to tune the car - just want to make sure I have to warranty related items around the corner.

Could I also get the trans info with an SCT so that I could use it later for an unleashed tune?


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[13blacksho]

CAC is the problem and Ford knows it thats the sad thing. I need that powerful pump just to make sure she's clean one good way to make sure you get to the bottom is use tape and your dip stick tape it to the side of the hose make it rigid so you can get down to the bottom

My '13 has done this for awhile... I cleaned out the CAC once before but couldn't get that much oil out.
I went to Lowes about a month ago and bought parts to make a mean oil sucking rig for my shop vac!
It works AWESOME! As soon as my Hose hit the bottom oil came gushing up at a very fast rate and it was bone dry. I can't replicate the shutter if I try now.
And I had the drivers side jacked up as well.

 

[John Miller]

My '13 has done this for awhile... I cleaned out the CAC once before but couldn't get that much oil out.
I went to Lowes about a month ago and bought parts to make a mean oil sucking rig for my shop vac!
It works AWESOME! As soon as my Hose hit the bottom oil came gushing up at a very fast rate and it was bone dry. I can't replicate the shutter if I try now.
And I had the drivers side jacked up as well.

I used a shop vac and emptied my CAC. Only got about 1 oz, and it made no difference in how the car ran. The CAC was virtually empty when I was done with it

 

[13blacksho]

I used a shop vac and emptied my CAC. Only got about 1 oz, and it made no difference in how the car ran.

What did you have for a set up on the shop vac?
Did you have the drivers side jacked up to get all of the oil to the pass side?

 

[John Miller]

What did you have for a set up on the shop vac?
Did you have the drivers side jacked up to get all of the oil to the pass side?

I rigged a hose into a brake bleeder cup, and sucked it out via a shop vac. Afterwards, a check with the dipstick showed almost nothing left at the bottom of the CAC. Yes, drivers side was jacked up ...

 

[SHOdded]

I eventually would like to tune the car - just want to make sure I have to warranty related items around the corner.

Could I also get the trans info with an SCT so that I could use it later for an unleashed tune?
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Should be able to, I don't know what the PIDs would be called though, I can find out though. Do you have an X4? Probably need to call SCT with your strategy code and make sure your SHO is fully supported first.

 

[John Miller]

I don't have the X4 yet - was just researching. I know it is what Torrie at Unleashed uses for his tunes ...

Would the PID data have been something the dealer would have checked when doing the diagnosis? It was the foreman working on it, and he was pretty squared away ..,


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[krewat]

For the record, an SCT X3 I tuned my truck with, after putting the latest firmware on it, was able to read PIDs from my early 2013 SHO.

Haven't tried it with the 2016 yet.

This "shudder" - it could be almost anything, even motor mounts (not that they are bad, but some harmonic is going on). Both my 2013 (which I never cleaned the intercooler on) and this 2016 now all exhibit some type of "weird feeling" at all sorts of places. I just chalk it up to it being an Ecoboost

That aside, if you do get a scanner of some type, check the knock sensor pids as well. And try running even higher octane than 91, max power on the Ecoboost is only with 93 octane.

The speeds and throttle positions you're talking about are around when the EGR is coming into play. (Didn't think these things had an EGR, but just checked fordparts.com and it definitely shows an EGR vent tube at least).

While you're monitoring PIDs, check the EGR PIDs if you can find them, and see if it's showing any EGR flow (or actuation) when this shudder happens.

I had a '96 T-bird 4.6L that was very aggressive opening the EGR at light throttle, doing almost the exact same thing you describe. I scanned it, realized the EGR was coming into play, and put a restrictor in the vacuum line going to the EGR valve. This cured the problem by delaying the EGR opening a little bit. Later on, checking differences between that car's calibration, and my wife's '97 Cougar which didn't have the problem, I realized the EGR actuation was different in the stock tunes.

 

[John Miller]

Wow, some great info here.

Your statement about your 13 and 16 SHOs doing weird things makes me wonder if I'm being too picky ...


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