turbo upgrades

[Jordan_R]

Yeah it's a somewhat tricky question since there's different ways and combinations of mods that achieve different results. With the right fuel you can get more than 400 whp tune-only, whereas you might not make that on 91 octane even with full bolt-ons. It appears the GH turbos are good for about 10% more airflow but that's just a guess.

Can do 20psi with 70% wgdc. Compressor side is 41mm on the gen 3. I am pretty sure they are about 20 something percent bigger on both compressor and turbine side

 

[thenewguy]

Can do 20psi with 70% wgdc. Compressor side is 41mm on the gen 3. I am pretty sure they are about 20 something percent bigger on both compressor and turbine side

So would you know kinda increase in power youd make with a 93 tune package and catted DPs with these turbos vs stocks?

 

[Jordan_R]

So would you know kinda increase in power youd make with a 93 tune package and catted DPs with these turbos vs stocks?

I mean that's definitely a very open ended question. You could make all you want with the turbos. Enough to rod the block assuming everything else like fueling is up to the task..

 

[Kevin81]

So would you know kinda increase in power youd make with a 93 tune package and catted DPs with these turbos vs stocks?

Boost and fuel go hand in hand.

Higher boost, you need more octane, otherwise you get pre detonation, aka, knock. Benefit of larger turbos is being able to run higher boost...but without correspondingly higher octane fuel, you're just gonna break your motor.

You're stuck like me...on 93, the best we can hope for is about 400whp.

Safely, anyway.

 

[thenewguy]

Boost and fuel go hand in hand.

Higher boost, you need more octane, otherwise you get pre detonation, aka, knock. Benefit of larger turbos is being able to run higher boost...but without correspondingly higher octane fuel, you're just gonna break your motor.

You're stuck like me...on 93, the best we can hope for is about 400whp.

Safely, anyway.

ok thanks, sorry am a noob to this stuff but i think you explained it best as in how beneficial the upgraded turbos would be for someone on pump gas. I was basically trying to keep everything else constant and just seeing kinda power difference one would make with everything else being the same like you said being on 93 tune package. So basically what I've gotten is unless one goes at least e30, its not worth it

 

[Jordan_R]

Saying you will only have the capability to make 400whp on 93 octane is extremely misleading and making 400awhp safely on 93 is already done on stock turbos all day long making 425ish awhp with the hpfp upgrade. You'd be hard pressed to not be able to make near 475awhp barely pushing the turbos on 93 octane with supporting mods. I made over 535 awhp on e30 with the turbos barely trying and e30 is only about 96 octane.

Bigger turbos = more efficient boost and the ability to run higher boost than stock. 93 octane isn't exactly capped at a specific power. You can run higher boost and lower timing and still make gobs of power.

 

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[Kevin81]

ok thanks, sorry am a noob to this stuff but i think you explained it best as in how beneficial the upgraded turbos would be for someone on pump gas. I was basically trying to keep everything else constant and just seeing kinda power difference one would make with everything else being the same like you said being on 93 tune package. So basically what I've gotten is unless one goes at least e30, its not worth it

We were all noobs once.

What you wanna learn about is compression ratio, as it applies to power generation, and the octane needs of lower vs higher compression...and then the benefits of lower compression for forced induction motors, vs the benefits of higher compression in naturally aspirated motors.

Basically, power is made by burning gas. The more you burn in a fixed period of time, the more power you make. But...you need more air to feed a bigger fire. But...only so much air and fuel can fit into a fixed space (combustion chamber) in set time. This creates more pressure, and demands a fuel that has a more consistent burn, ie, higher octane ratings.

 

[Kevin81]

Saying you will only have the capability to make 400whp on 93 octane is extremely misleading and making 400awhp safely on 93 is already done on stock turbos all day long making 425ish awhp with the hpfp upgrade. You'd be hard pressed to not be able to make near 475awhp barely pushing the turbos on 93 octane with supporting mods. I made over 535 awhp on e30 with the turbos barely trying and e30 is only about 96 octane.

Bigger turbos = more efficient boost and the ability to run higher boost than stock. 93 octane isn't exactly capped at a specific power. You can run higher boost and lower timing and still make gobs of power.

What I'm saying is, power adding wise, without going e30, installing larger turbos isn't much of a bang for the buck. Yeah, they'll spool faster, better power band...but frankly, this motor already makes torque for days, at, what...2,000 rpms?

475whp on 93? Color me dubious. I'm running catless downpipes and a gear head AO tune...and my butt says I'm not making one prancing pony more than 390whp. So, I go with the hpfp, and the gh intercooler, you're saying I'm gonna pick up another 80whp? Look, you know way more than me, especially about this platform...but honestly, I find that hard to believe. At least, safely and reliably, anyway.

 

[Jordan_R]

What I'm saying is, power adding wise, without going e30, installing larger turbos isn't much of a bang for the buck. Yeah, they'll spool faster, better power band...but frankly, this motor already makes torque for days, at, what...2,000 rpms?

475whp on 93? Color me dubious. I'm running catless downpipes and a gear head AO tune...and my butt says I'm not making one prancing pony more than 390whp. So, I go with the hpfp, and the gh intercooler, you're saying I'm gonna pick up another 80whp? Look, you know way more than me, especially about this platform...but honestly, I find that hard to believe. At least, safely and reliably, anyway.

475 with gen3 turbos on 93. 425 with stock turbos 93 octane

 

[thenewguy]

Thanks everyone for the clarification on where the gen 3 turbos shine. My goal isnt to be the fastest by any means BUT as things break lol id wanna upgrade. Im most likely gonna go with a 91 tune since thats what is most common around me, maybe throw in 93 here and there once in a while. No E85 around me. I plan on getting catted DP's and a big maybe on the intercooler. That was going to be the extent of my go fast parts but was wondering if with that setup, if my turbos were go, would going the gen 3 route be beneficial and if so, kinda gains would I see. I see now after reading everything here, stick with stock lol unless theres something else that would help. No HPFP or meth for me

 

[Zpak]

The GH intercooler actually makes a huge difference.

 

[limited02]

Thanks everyone for the clarification on where the gen 3 turbos shine. My goal isnt to be the fastest by any means BUT as things break lol id wanna upgrade. Im most likely gonna go with a 91 tune since thats what is most common around me, maybe throw in 93 here and there once in a while. No E85 around me. I plan on getting catted DP's and a big maybe on the intercooler. That was going to be the extent of my go fast parts but was wondering if with that setup, if my turbos were go, would going the gen 3 route be beneficial and if so, kinda gains would I see. I see now after reading everything here, stick with stock lol unless theres something else that would help. No HPFP or meth for me

Truthfully, you'll most likely be more than satisfied with a good 91 tune and catted DP's. The car will then run like it should have from the factory and be a hoot from a dig.

 

[stripSHO]

Can do 20psi with 70% wgdc. Compressor side is 41mm on the gen 3. I am pretty sure they are about 20 something percent bigger on both compressor and turbine side

Ahh okay. One guy says 18 psi at 70%, you say 20 psi @ 70%. Obviously evironment makes a difference. Either way that's 8-15% increase in boost. But that's not necessarily synonymous with peak airflow and I'm just trying to understand how these turbos are supposedly the bee's knees and carry all the boost all the way to redline, yet from what I've seen torque takes a swan dive into the Grand Canyon past 5000 rpm with them.

 

[limited02]

Ahh okay. One guy says 18 psi at 70%, you say 20 psi @ 70%. Obviously evironment makes a difference. Either way that's 8-15% increase in boost. But that's not necessarily synonymous with peak airflow and I'm just trying to understand how these turbos are supposedly the bee's knees and carry all the boost all the way to redline, yet from what I've seen torque takes a swan dive into the Grand Canyon past 5000 rpm with them.

@mattr66 (Sorry I'm always tagging you!)

 

[mattr66]

The cams sign off at 5000 RPMs so that's why the power nosedives. Also turbine flow plays some factor here and we have very little.

Sent from my motorola edge plus using Tapatalk

 

[Kevin81]

Thanks everyone for the clarification on where the gen 3 turbos shine. My goal isnt to be the fastest by any means BUT as things break lol id wanna upgrade. Im most likely gonna go with a 91 tune since thats what is most common around me, maybe throw in 93 here and there once in a while. No E85 around me. I plan on getting catted DP's and a big maybe on the intercooler. That was going to be the extent of my go fast parts but was wondering if with that setup, if my turbos were go, would going the gen 3 route be beneficial and if so, kinda gains would I see. I see now after reading everything here, stick with stock lol unless theres something else that would help. No HPFP or meth for me

Oh, yeah. If you're replacing the worn out turbos (when they go), 100% don't replace them with stock. Price of replacement oem turbos vs aftermarket is negligible, when compared with how big a PITA they are to swap out.

 

[Kevin81]

When my turbos wear out, I'm upgrading. Might never fully utilize their potential...but they'll be there already in case I want to try. And who knows? Maybe one day my state will get e85.

 

[Majestic]

When my turbos wear out, I'm upgrading. Might never fully utilize their potential...but they'll be there already in case I want to try. And who knows? Maybe one day my state will get e85.

What state are you in?

 

[Kevin81]

What state are you in?

Connecticut.