Tuning injector questions

[91PDXmocha]

Hey anyone with tuning experience want to throw me a bone here. I'm just beginning and have been doing tons of research. Right now I'm trying to get the car to idle decent with the SVO 30# injectors.

I first didn't mess with anything but the maf function, changed it to fit a pro-m 30 and I got the car to fire up and idle ok for 20 seconds then surge erratically with 8-10% inj dc at idle.

So I read some more and decided to try my hand at tuning for the specif injectors and still use the stock maf curve. The injectors are SVO bosch 0280 150 945 -rated 29.4lb per hr . I started by changing the injector slopes to high 30 / low 35 , break point of 4 . I put in the values for proper PW vs BAT VOLTS from the chart in ECCanalyzer and checked them online. For the pulse width vs ECT I started with lowering it by the ratio of set up in injector size 19's-30's I did multiply by .55% . With this tune it cranks and cranks and stumbles and will sometimes catch and smoke ( super rich still )

Im installing a new maf next week but would like to learn as much as possible until then. Any pointers from the tuning wizards where to go next ? Im searching endlessly online and in every forum I can find including EccTuner.com

Thanks for any help guys. Merry Xmas

 

[Sho Amo]

well for one your going from 22 to 30 not 19. I didnt know you are using the stock maf? You shouldnt be changing the maf to tune the injectors.

 

[91PDXmocha]

well for one your going from 22 to 30 not 19. I didnt know you are using the stock maf? You shouldnt be changing the maf to tune the injectors.

from what I have been reading yes thats one way to do it but the proper way is to put in all the proper values for your injectors and then the flow #'s for whatever maf you are using , which is what im trying to do.

as far as I knew 3.0 injectors are 19.xx and 3.2's where 20.xx.

 

[Sho Amo]

Ahh I was wrong. 3.2 are 24lb, and 3.0 are a tad smaller than 24.


Edit: Im struggling right now as well. Im using 42s and I cant get the car to start consistently. I have been reading that its the cranking PW. So be sure to tune that as well.

 

[Sho Amo]

This helped me alot.
http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9395

 

[91PDXmocha]

From what I understand the pcm uses just the cranking PW vs ECT to start the car until its determined that its in "run" mode. How much did you change the crank PW from the stock setting ( or 3.2 injectors for you )for the 42's.

Ill try changing the values this time for going from 24's to 30's.

I stumbled onto that one yesterday in my mad search for more tuning info. Some very good stuff in that thread, i remember re-reading that a few times and its bookmarked

 

[91PDXmocha]

This MM&FF had some good info I thought as well .
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_0612_ford_eec_efi_system/fuel_injectors.html

 

[AREA 91]

Stock 3.0 injectors are pink, and rated at 23.7
Stock 3.2 injectors are purple, and rated at 24.4

:angelnot:

 

[Sho Amo]

I reduced the stock PW by %40. I multiplied it by .6 to do so.

Im actually having starting issues that I dont think are related to tuning. No matter what I do with it, the car randomly wont start. Im still searching though.

 

[91PDXmocha]

Got the car running today much better thanks to going over all my changes again with more precise numbers thanks guys. Car fires up instantly , idles little high 1000-1100, but im going to lower that now that I know my injector settings are much close . Now time for more reading to see what to start tweaking with next . Suggestions from experience anyone ? hoping to get 8-9 psi , 275-300 whp out of these redtops.

 

[Sho Amo]

Honestly, youre in front of me at this point. My car is getting a new crank sensor and front main seal. If its still acting stupid ill be getting a DIS.

 

[91PDXmocha]

let me know if u need a DIS , i have 2-3 spares id send you for shipping (prob almost nothing ) and 5-10 bucks to the forum.

 

[Toolman]

A good way to make sure your injector settings are spot on is to start with a MAF that you know the curve of, ie a 55mm. Then set all your part throttle fuel settings to stoich. Then do some datalogging. If you are not getting 1.0's across the board, you will know that your fuel injector settings are a little off. Adjust accordingly to get them dialed in. Once they are as close to spot on as possible, then install your desired maf and its curve. Keep your part throttle fuel settings at stoich. Repeat datalogs. Anywhere you are not getting 1.0's, adjust your maf curve accordingly. Once your injector settings and MAF curve are as close to perfect as possible, the rest of the tuning will go much much easier, way less chasing your tail. Of course, while doing this datalogging, it is important to stay at part throttle and low loads. WOT tuning can come later.

 

[Sho Amo]

Tim, you're the best.

edit: wait, do you mean actually swapping mafs or just the curve?

 

[Toolman]

Tim, you're the best.

edit: wait, do you mean actually swapping mafs or just the curve?

You always want the the MAF curve you have in your tune to represent the ACTUAL MAF you have installed. If not, bad things can and will happen. Also, when trying to find your ideal injector settings, with a known MAF curve (ie the stock 55), it is best to use the MAF in the stock location and configuration (draw through in this case). No need to even be hooked up to boost at this point, that can come later. Once your injector settings are where you plan on leaving them, and you are ready to dial in a MAF curve, you will want the MAF in the location and configuration it will see while boosted, as any intake path changes, and especially blow-through versus draw-through config, will effect the MAF curve.

 

[Sho Amo]

Finally got my car to start consistently! I took all the free tuning Adam gave me and threw it away. Had to start from scratch, and it is difficult.

Tim, I dont really have a way to use the stock maf. I dont have space to use a draw through setup with this turbo. I do have the curve that Justin sent me from VMP. I really dont need to get this tune spot on anyways, since its going to Adam in a few months for a professional tune. I just need to get it driveable.

This is where im at...

So first off, set the injector parameters in your tune to the injectors you are using. Search TuneExchange for templates that may already represent your injectors. TuneExchange is maintained by one of the members of this forum which is a professional dyno tuner. These are the very templates he uses for himself and graciously offers them to the public. Assuming you find a template matching your injectors, the template most likely contains injector high slope, low slope, breakpoint, and Injector Offset vs Battery Voltage. If you cannot find a template that matches your injectors, then start by entering the injector's actual rated flow for the high slope. Enter a low slope value that's ~7% above the high slope. Set the Breakpoint to around 3-4...actually 3e-5 to 4e-5 lb/rev. Assuming you are using a MAF other than stock, enter the MAF curve that describes your MAF. Again, TuneExchange can be helpful at finding a generic curve for your MAF if you don't know what your MAF's curve is.

 

[shodown95]

What tunning software are you using on your taurus? And I thought the svo injectors were different, as in shape and wldnt work?

 

[Sho Amo]

This is good, read this.
http://www.mediafire.com/?6xtk49cx464vitg


Explains short term fuel trim (LAMBSE) and long term fuel trim (KAMRF).

Edit: I have a datalog that shows LAMBSE correcting for a rich condition and KAMRF is correcting for a lean condition.

 

[91PDXmocha]

What tunning software are you using on your taurus? And I thought the svo injectors were different, as in shape and wldnt work?

Moated quarterhorse with Binary editor .

I modified the SVO injectors to make them fit like stock . No spacers no fuel rail boring . You can buy a new set that don't require modding from Shonut or shosource .

 

[shodown95]

How did you modify the svo injectors? Thanks