The reason the ford certified tech in the video is shorting the positive to negative like he is , to drain capacitors holding a charge to keep memory. It can't hurt to follow his procedure.
Torque Converter?
- Thread starter jman1200
- Start date
Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.
mechanical component but electronically controlled.
2011 Taurus Workshop Manual
Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid
The TCC solenoid is used in the transaxle control system to control the application, modulation and release of the torque converter clutch.
Electronic System Description
The PCM and its input/output network controls the following operations:
The transaxle control is separate from the engine control strategy in the PCM, although some of the input signals are shared. When determining the best operating strategy for transaxle operation, the PCM uses input information from certain engine-related and driver-demand related sensors and switches.
In addition, the PCM receives input signals from certain transaxle-related sensors and switches. The PCM also uses these signals when determining transaxle operating strategy.
Using all of these input signals, the PCM can determine when the time and conditions are right for a shift, or when to apply or release the TCC . It will also determine the best line pressure needed to optimize shift engagement feel. To accomplish this, the PCM uses output solenoids to control transaxle operation.
The following provides a brief description of each of the sensors and actuators used to control transaxle operation.
Drive Test — Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Control
The output state control values for TCC_OSC to engage or disengage the TCC are as follows:
Vehicle requirements must be met when using TCC_OSC Controlling the TCC .
When sending the TCC_OSC value [1 or OFF], the engine must be running with the transaxle in the DRIVE position and the vehicle speed must be greater than 5 km/h (3 mph).
When sending the TCC_OSC value [2 or 3 or ON], the engine must be running with the selector lever in the DRIVE position, transaxle in 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th gear, transaxle temperature between 4°C (40°F) and 121°C (250°F), the vehicle speed must be below 24 km/h (15 mph) and engine speed greater than 1,100 rpm with minimal engine load.
if this is a solenoid issue, get a new solenoid body assembly and filter.
2011 Taurus Workshop Manual
Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid
The TCC solenoid is used in the transaxle control system to control the application, modulation and release of the torque converter clutch.
Electronic System Description
The PCM and its input/output network controls the following operations:
- Shift timing
- Line pressure (shift feel)
- Torque Converter Clutch (TCC)
The transaxle control is separate from the engine control strategy in the PCM, although some of the input signals are shared. When determining the best operating strategy for transaxle operation, the PCM uses input information from certain engine-related and driver-demand related sensors and switches.
In addition, the PCM receives input signals from certain transaxle-related sensors and switches. The PCM also uses these signals when determining transaxle operating strategy.
Using all of these input signals, the PCM can determine when the time and conditions are right for a shift, or when to apply or release the TCC . It will also determine the best line pressure needed to optimize shift engagement feel. To accomplish this, the PCM uses output solenoids to control transaxle operation.
The following provides a brief description of each of the sensors and actuators used to control transaxle operation.
Drive Test — Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Control
The output state control values for TCC_OSC to engage or disengage the TCC are as follows:
- 0 — PCM in normal control of TCC and output state control is cancelled
- 1 or OFF — Commands PCM to keep the TCC from engaging
- 2 or ON — Commands PCM to engage the TCC using a normal ramp rate
- 3 or ON — Commands PCM to engage the TCC using a fast ramp rate
Vehicle requirements must be met when using TCC_OSC Controlling the TCC .
When sending the TCC_OSC value [1 or OFF], the engine must be running with the transaxle in the DRIVE position and the vehicle speed must be greater than 5 km/h (3 mph).
When sending the TCC_OSC value [2 or 3 or ON], the engine must be running with the selector lever in the DRIVE position, transaxle in 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th gear, transaxle temperature between 4°C (40°F) and 121°C (250°F), the vehicle speed must be below 24 km/h (15 mph) and engine speed greater than 1,100 rpm with minimal engine load.
PCM Transaxle Connector — C1381T (3.5L Gasoline Turbocharged Direct Injection (GTDI))
Pin Number | Circuit Function |
|---|---|
1 | Turbine Shaft Speed (TSS)/Output Shaft Speed (OSS) Power |
10 | Shift Solenoid D (SSD) |
11 | Shift Solenoid E (SSE) |
16 | Turbine Shaft Speed (TSS) Sensor Signal |
17 | Transmission Range (TR)1 |
19 | Transmission Fluid Temperature (TFT) Sensor Supply |
25 | OSS Sensor Signal |
26 | TR 2 |
27 | TR 4 |
28 | TR 3 |
34 | Line Pressure Control (LPC) |
36 | TR / TSS / OSS Ground |
41 | TFT Signal Return |
43 | Shift Solenoid B (SSB) |
44 | Shift Solenoid C (SSC) |
45 | Shift Solenoid A (SSA) |
46 | Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid |
50 | Transaxle Solenoid Power Control Voltage |
Transaxle Vehicle Harness Connector — C168
Pin Number | Circuit Function |
|---|---|
1 | Shift Solenoid E (SSE) |
2 | Transmission Fluid Temperature (TFT) Sensor Supply |
3 | TFT Signal Return |
4 | Transmission Range (TR)1 |
5 | TR 2 |
6 | TR 3 |
7 | TR 4 |
8 | TR Sensor Ground |
9 | Turbine Shaft Speed (TSS)/Output Shaft Speed (OSS) Sensor Ground |
10 | OSS Sensor Signal |
11 | Not Used |
12 | Shift Solenoid D (SSD) |
13 | Shift Solenoid A (SSA) |
14 | Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid |
15 | Transaxle Solenoid Power Control Voltage |
16 | Shift Solenoid B (SSB) |
17 | Shift Solenoid C (SSC) |
18 | Line Pressure Control (LPC) |
19 | TSS Sensor Signal |
20 | TSS / OSS Sensor Power Supply |
Last edited:
@SHOdded , thanks for sharing this info. From reading it, I assume the TCC needs some sort of specialized scanner(?).
I don't have the knowledge to determine if it is a solenoid issue, unless there are PIDs I can monitor with Forscan(?)
See below.
I took the vehicle to a reputable transmission shop. One of the techs took it for a test drive with a scanner, I didn't go with him.
While the vehicle was out I was speaking to the shop owner and he said that torque converter issues usually happen at high rpms, which is the opposite I'm experiencing.
The tech came back and they went to the back of the shop, never shared what he really found.
Owner comes back and tells me that there is definitely an issue with the converter but that there are also low pressures in the transmission, most likely due to wear. They wanted a full rebuild (including the TC) at a cost of $4k CAD.
I suspect that they don't want to fix one thing (the one causing the issue) and have something else fail within the warranty period. Just a way to cover themselves.
Investing that kind of $ on a vehicle with 300k km is not an easy decision to make.
I'm going to take it to another shop for a second opinion but I suspect I'm going to get the same answer. I'll keep you posted.
I don't have the knowledge to determine if it is a solenoid issue, unless there are PIDs I can monitor with Forscan(?)
See below.
I took the vehicle to a reputable transmission shop. One of the techs took it for a test drive with a scanner, I didn't go with him.
While the vehicle was out I was speaking to the shop owner and he said that torque converter issues usually happen at high rpms, which is the opposite I'm experiencing.
The tech came back and they went to the back of the shop, never shared what he really found.
Owner comes back and tells me that there is definitely an issue with the converter but that there are also low pressures in the transmission, most likely due to wear. They wanted a full rebuild (including the TC) at a cost of $4k CAD.
I suspect that they don't want to fix one thing (the one causing the issue) and have something else fail within the warranty period. Just a way to cover themselves.
Investing that kind of $ on a vehicle with 300k km is not an easy decision to make.
I'm going to take it to another shop for a second opinion but I suspect I'm going to get the same answer. I'll keep you posted.
it is possible the shop is correct, but it is also very possible they are going at it old school - aka a pre-computerized era approach. when asking you to fork over that kind of cash - which of course has ballooned since the pandemic started - they should be willing to give you a more detailed explanation, whether the customer fully understands or not.
can you get a more detailed description of the proposed work and reasoning in writing, and post it here? then we could peruse it together.
honestly, 300k km isnt a lot for these transmissions when properly maintained, and primarily highway driven. mixed or all city, yeah its a lot lol.
as a strategy, i would replace all the sensors and the solenoid body assembly first and check the valve body, maybe even rebuild it with a sonnax kit. put all new fluid in. then reevaluate. valve bodies rarely go bad (again w regular fluid maintenance), but sometimes a piston or two will get stuck in the bore. certain mys had to have the valve body modified to resolve issues.
a couple of tsbs you may want to peruse
i regularly use these pids on the 6f50 in our edge, should be available for your SHO also. pretty much the kitchen sink lol but as you can see there is a lot of converter related data. just have to know what its saying. i have not spent much time with these pids tho as i have yet to have tc related issues on the edge.
can you get a more detailed description of the proposed work and reasoning in writing, and post it here? then we could peruse it together.
honestly, 300k km isnt a lot for these transmissions when properly maintained, and primarily highway driven. mixed or all city, yeah its a lot lol.
as a strategy, i would replace all the sensors and the solenoid body assembly first and check the valve body, maybe even rebuild it with a sonnax kit. put all new fluid in. then reevaluate. valve bodies rarely go bad (again w regular fluid maintenance), but sometimes a piston or two will get stuck in the bore. certain mys had to have the valve body modified to resolve issues.
a couple of tsbs you may want to peruse
i regularly use these pids on the 6f50 in our edge, should be available for your SHO also. pretty much the kitchen sink lol but as you can see there is a lot of converter related data. just have to know what its saying. i have not spent much time with these pids tho as i have yet to have tc related issues on the edge.
| TCC AMP(A) | TCCFM | TCCPC(kPa) | TCCPC_F | TCC_OSC | TCC_OT | TCC_RAT( :1) | TCIL | TCS | TC_SLIPACT(1/min) | TC_SLIPDSD(1/min) | TC_SLIP_ABSL(1/min) | GEAR RATIO |
After going to several transmission shops and getting the same general answer "you need a full $4k to $5k rebuild", most likely to cover their @SS with a high mileage vehicle, I've decided to put some shudder elimination additives in and run it till Spring-Summer (unless it fails before then).
I looked around, used transmissions go from $350 to $700 (and up) depending on mileage so I'm considering this option. It also seems to make sense to go from a 4 bolt torque converter to a 3 one, will also expand the possibilities of finding a low mileage transmission when the time comes.
Aside from replacing the drive plate to a 3 bolt one, with this being a 2010, what else needs to happen to replace this transmission? Is there any programming involved?
According to a Ford parts website, my SHO requires AA5Z-7000-BRM (Replaces: AA5Z-7000-B, AA5Z-7000-E) - 4 bolt.
The used ones listed for a 2013 are:
Anyone knows which of the many on this list would fit/work?
@802SHO
In this thread you said you did what I intend to do. Can you please answer some of the questions and let me know what else is involved?
shoforum.com
I looked around, used transmissions go from $350 to $700 (and up) depending on mileage so I'm considering this option. It also seems to make sense to go from a 4 bolt torque converter to a 3 one, will also expand the possibilities of finding a low mileage transmission when the time comes.
Aside from replacing the drive plate to a 3 bolt one, with this being a 2010, what else needs to happen to replace this transmission? Is there any programming involved?
According to a Ford parts website, my SHO requires AA5Z-7000-BRM (Replaces: AA5Z-7000-B, AA5Z-7000-E) - 4 bolt.
The used ones listed for a 2013 are:
Anyone knows which of the many on this list would fit/work?
@802SHO
In this thread you said you did what I intend to do. Can you please answer some of the questions and let me know what else is involved?
After market torque converter
I have been trying to hunt down all the parts I believe I will need to swap another tranny in and I’m stuck at finding a Torque converter I have found very few listings of 4 bolt torque converters I was wondering if anyone knows of any four bolt torque converters for sale or a flex plate that...
shoforum.com
bpd1151
Lurking Around
@jman1200.....
I can only chime in on the aspect of the 3 bolt TC (& correlating 3 bolt flex plate) as my 2010, which was what Ford termed for that model year as a "Job 1" car.... (there was a "Job 2" build which happened mid year 2010 for the record.
Mine was also an early "Job 1" car.
That said, there aren't a lot of the 3 bolt pattern TC's and flexplates out there.
I actually switched to the more current, 4 bolt offering (found on most Job 2 2010 model years, and up).
What makes you want to do the opposite?
From what I learned or was told, having a 4 bolt pattern is better, allegedly providing more strength or more balance or what have you.
What did you learn that's prompting you to go in reverse and want the 3 bolt pattern?
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
I can only chime in on the aspect of the 3 bolt TC (& correlating 3 bolt flex plate) as my 2010, which was what Ford termed for that model year as a "Job 1" car.... (there was a "Job 2" build which happened mid year 2010 for the record.
Mine was also an early "Job 1" car.
That said, there aren't a lot of the 3 bolt pattern TC's and flexplates out there.
I actually switched to the more current, 4 bolt offering (found on most Job 2 2010 model years, and up).
What makes you want to do the opposite?
From what I learned or was told, having a 4 bolt pattern is better, allegedly providing more strength or more balance or what have you.
What did you learn that's prompting you to go in reverse and want the 3 bolt pattern?
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
I believe that’s wrong and please correct me, I can look but I have an OEM 4 bolt on my 2010 and am switching to the 3 bolt 2013+ flex plate bc I bought a 3 bolt GearHead torque converter. 4 bolt should be 10-12 and 3 bolt 13+.
bpd1151
Lurking Around
I'd have to check my own thread on this subject matter.
It's been like forever and a day, and honestly I'm semi-checked out because it has been so long.
I may be incorrect, and my post earlier was done during a break while at work.
Allow me to verify. Good to see your build is coming along nicely Andrew.
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
It's been like forever and a day, and honestly I'm semi-checked out because it has been so long.
I may be incorrect, and my post earlier was done during a break while at work.
Allow me to verify. Good to see your build is coming along nicely Andrew.
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
Thank you and I’ve been having the same trouble bc it’s been so long I had to look it up earlier today bc I’m buying a 3 bolt flex plate from Reactor Products tomorrow. Thanks to you!
bpd1151
Lurking Around
Yea, I'll either look back in my own thread, or reach out to Max Power tomorrow.
Been a long ass day. Have been up since 3:30am. Off to bed for now.
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
Been a long ass day. Have been up since 3:30am. Off to bed for now.
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
All that’s required is switch to a 3 bolt flex plate and should always use brand new torque converter bolts per the service manualAfter going to several transmission shops and getting the same general answer "you need a full $4k to $5k rebuild", most likely to cover their @SS with a high mileage vehicle, I've decided to put some shudder elimination additives in and run it till Spring-Summer (unless it fails before then).
I looked around, used transmissions go from $350 to $700 (and up) depending on mileage so I'm considering this option. It also seems to make sense to go from a 4 bolt torque converter to a 3 one, will also expand the possibilities of finding a low mileage transmission when the time comes.
Aside from replacing the drive plate to a 3 bolt one, with this being a 2010, what else needs to happen to replace this transmission? Is there any programming involved?
According to a Ford parts website, my SHO requires AA5Z-7000-BRM (Replaces: AA5Z-7000-B, AA5Z-7000-E) - 4 bolt.
The used ones listed for a 2013 are:
View attachment 88977
Anyone knows which of the many on this list would fit/work?
@802SHO
In this thread you said you did what I intend to do. Can you please answer some of the questions and let me know what else is involved?
After market torque converter
I have been trying to hunt down all the parts I believe I will need to swap another tranny in and I’m stuck at finding a Torque converter I have found very few listings of 4 bolt torque converters I was wondering if anyone knows of any four bolt torque converters for sale or a flex plate that...
Ta2dResqr
SHO Member
ForScan should have the PIDs. Are you using a laptop or ForScan Lite on your phone. I use the OBDLink MX+ with ForScan Lite for most of my diagnostics. If you go to the Table View tab, click the gear icon. This will bring up a screen with the current PIDs. There will be a trash can to clear the current and a "+" to select new. When you select the "+" there will be a search box and you can search or scroll through all (TONS) the options. When you get them selected, you can go back to the Table View and press play to view them live. This should be the same for the Dashboard and Graph view if those are better suited for your needs.
bpd1151
Lurking Around
Good Lord..... after a fresh night's sleep, and looking back.
Andrew is correct in correcting me.
Eek. I used to have the 4 bolt and transitioned to the 3 bolt.
That Alzheimer's (a.k.a. "Old Timers") must be rearing it's head again.
I'd edit my previous post, but will leave it up to show even I make mistakes every now and then.
Apologize for the confusion.
I'm exiting stage left now. Hahaha
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
Andrew is correct in correcting me.
Eek. I used to have the 4 bolt and transitioned to the 3 bolt.
That Alzheimer's (a.k.a. "Old Timers") must be rearing it's head again.
I'd edit my previous post, but will leave it up to show even I make mistakes every now and then.
Apologize for the confusion.
I'm exiting stage left now. Hahaha
Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
@bpd1151, when I first searched for a used transmission on car-part for a 2010, the list displayed said 4 bolts. Then, found 802SHO's thread and confirmed this. I do not know for sure which one I have but my SHO was built in 2009 so most likely a 4 bolt one.
No worries, I also have the German guy (Alzheimer) tapping on my shoulder.
@802SHO, so these transmissions are "plug n play?" no programing.
No worries, I also have the German guy (Alzheimer) tapping on my shoulder.
@802SHO, so these transmissions are "plug n play?" no programing.
Appreciate your reply.
I'm using a laptop and honestly I'm very cautious when opening "unknown" stuff on Forscan, last thing I want to do is mess something up.
I'll follow your instructions and play with this over the next days. Question now is, which PIDs should I look for that are specific to the transmission and more importantly, what would a good and bad value be?
It will require reprogramming through Forscan or stealership. You should be able to drive it and just go slow nothing crazy to get it somewhere if need be to be reprogrammed bc you’ll have a new solenoid strategy. It’ll be on the transmission on the outside, up top near top mount, if for some reason it’s hard to see the strategy is right on the solenoid assembly if you remove the front cover (where the dipstick/fill cap are located)
Quick update.
I added the Lucas snake oil and the vibration reduced substantially.
I found a used transmission with about 160k km (100k miles) nearby and my local mechanic quoted 11 hrs of labor to replace it, at $100 CAD/hr. This is less than half what they quoted to rebuild it.
I'm in between jobs right now and not using the SHO at all so will hold on this repair until I need the vehicle again.
I added the Lucas snake oil and the vibration reduced substantially.
I found a used transmission with about 160k km (100k miles) nearby and my local mechanic quoted 11 hrs of labor to replace it, at $100 CAD/hr. This is less than half what they quoted to rebuild it.
I'm in between jobs right now and not using the SHO at all so will hold on this repair until I need the vehicle again.
SM105K
Streetlight Grand Prix Champ/ IG @fafomotorsports
Yes it will fit in the trunk. It really isnt as big you would think.
i would consider changing oil and coolant just as if you were going to put it into storage.
Similar threads
