Tire Help/Questions

[lowc]

depending on what they actualy did to the front end and if they can provide a copy of a alinment sheet (witch is required for any warenty alinments) if one was needed. you have a slim chance of getting the tires covered. I do agree that you shouldn't have to dish out ~$1000 on a car that has relitivly low mileage.

if you do go a different route with tires, i also sugest the toyo 4's i run them on my spring/summer wheels and love the way the perform

 

[wchain]

RS-As are awful. Talk to any law enforcement officer. RS-A's are OEM on many CVPIs, 9C1s and Charger Police. Many of them get replaced with Firestone firehawk GT pursuit and double the life.

Regarding continental, we have the DWS available in the size we need, however I have found in my 7 Series that these tires were really noisy, albeit with awesome grip.

Spaz, I'll take a picture of my tires tomorrow. 1800 miles on them and they dont look promising.

How confident are you that the dealer that did the service actually measured the tread depth along the life of your tires, or just had the oil change guy look and say "eh hes got 5000 miles on it, 8/32 is good". Happens more often than you think.

 

[SpAz]

How confident are you that the dealer that did the service actually measured the tread depth along the life of your tires, or just had the oil change guy look and say "eh hes got 5000 miles on it, 8/32 is good". Happens more often than you think.

That would be their problem then.

My thing is how all of sudden did my tires start wearing extremely fast about 2-3,000miles after they messed with the front end for multiple days. On top of replacing tie rod ends the 'engineer' did this.

Field engineer road tested car and verified noise.

Raised vehicle on alignment rack and atempted to pinpoit noise.

Listened to complete front end with electronic stethescope.

Noise sounded loudest in kuckle and strut area.

Removed lower controll arm and checked ball joint for binding.

Removed steering kuckle and pulled out wheel bearing.

Inspected wheel bearing.

Applied anti sieze to bearing boar and reinstalled bearing.

Removed strut.

Removed strut cap and bearing assembly.

Inspected bearing and repacked.

Reassembled front end.

Engineer road tested Taurus, noise was gone on left side that was apart.

Performed same procedures to right side of vehicle.

Disassembled left suspension and reassembled.

Road test vehicle both sides now quiet.

Performed front end alignment check.

Reset toe.




The three service sheets I have after they did front end work (from 7,000 - 10,000) all note that there is uneven wear on the front tires of the vehicle.

I'm not trying to get a set of wheels out of this.... Not even close. I want to be assured that the front end of this vehicle is ok. If it turns out that it isn't ok, then I expect the tires be prorated for replacement and that the front end of this vehicle be fixed to avoid further issues.

I just find it way too odd that Goodyear and other Ford dealers say those tires should last 18-20,000 miles and mine were on pace to doing that until Ford toyed with my front end.

We'll have a verdict 9am tomorrow morning.

 

[TRBOSHO]

First off, I have a whole bunch of cars and I've used a whole bunch of different tires. My Corvette came with Goodyear F1's and they handled great but they were loud and rode terrible. I have also purchased Toyo Proxes 4's and currently have a set of 20's. They are also noisy and gas mileage decreases when they are on the car--and mine are like new with the mold lines still in the tires. I happen to like the Michelins. I just put a new set of Energy Savers on my daily driver. I also have the Primacy's on my SHO. The car only has 4800 miles on it but they have worn extremely well so far and I can't tell that there is any wear at all yet. There is always a sacrifice when buying tires. My Corvette now wears Firestone run-flats and they are MUCH quieter and ride WAY better than the Goodyears; however, they also have more sidewall flex and I can feel it when cornering.

The Hankook Ventus V12 is a good tire I'd consider if you want to keep a performance tire on the car. I have put them on another Corvette and they ride good and are quiet as well. They are only $612 a set through Tire Rack for our SHO's

Here are some Tire Rack pricing on our sizes and the last photo is my Proxes 4 tire......I definitely DO NOT recommend those.....

Also of note, The Michelins currently have a $70 rebate on a purchase of 4, and the Hankooks have a $60 rebate on a set of 4...

 

[Showgun]

Maybe I'm looking at this simplistically but at 5,000miles my tires wore a total of 2/32" (F1s come with 10/32" tread).

If you take the 5,000miles with 2/32" of tread wear that would be 1/32" of tread wear per 2,500 miles. If that tread wear remained consistent this is the mileage I could expect.

10/32" - New Tires 0miles
8/32" - 5,000miles
7/32" - 7,500miles
6/32" - 10,000
5/32" - 12,500
4/32" - 15,000
3/32" - 17,500
2/32" - 20,000

^^ That is roughly the mileage the Goodyear rep as well as 5 other Ford service guys said they've seen/expected with the Eagle F1s.

Mine looks like this:

10/32" - New Tires 0 miles
8/32" - 5,000miles
7/32" - 7,100miles
5-6/32" - 8,600miles
2/32" - 12,800 miles.

I went through 6/32" of tread in 7,800 miles. Or 1/32" of tread per 1,300miles. For some reason between 5,000miles and 12,800 miles my tire wear was accelerated and there are service documents that suggest uneven tire wear.

To me something seems a little odd that there is such an acceleration in wear AFTER they messed with my front end for a week.

If I were to average 1,300miles per 1/32" of tread my chart would have looked like this from day 1.

10/32" - New Tires 0miles
9/32" - 1,300miles
8/32" - 2,600miles
7/32" - 3,900miles
6/32" - 5,200miles
5/32" - 6,500miles
4/32" - 7,800miles
3/32" - 9,100miles
2/32" - 10,400miles


^^^ That does not support what the several dealerships are saying they've experienced with other SHOs equipped with the Eagle F1, nor does it support what the goodyear rep said he has seen in mileage with the tire either.

Something isn't adding up here.

I understand your dilemma, SpAz, -- Looks like you're having an impossible time getting Ford, the tire manufacturer or the dealer to step up and admit that there might be something wrong in the front end, possibly rear end, the tires or even the car's traction control system.

I don't blame you for being upset -- I would be too since it seems that you drive fairly conservatively as I do.

Typical: little guy stuck in the middle of giants and coming out on the short end.
Keep hammering at all of 'em. About all you can practically do.

I wish luck and completely understand why you're p'd off.

C.

 

[wchain]

Wow. I paid 100 dollars LESS per tire for those michelins about 6 months ago. WTF.

BTW, I track with a guy that owns an E55 that has those EVO V12s and he loves them. He beats the **** out of his car, so he only gets around 10,000 miles out of them.

 

[Andymh]

I really want to replace the OE RS-A's on my 2011 SHO. Being from a snow state, I already have a set of Blizzaks. But I'm having trouble finding a reasonable rest-of-the-year alternative for my 255/45/19 size. My only option seems to be high end summer-only tires that are expensive and wear out in about 20k. Are there options I'm missing, or is this just part of owning a SHO?

 

[TRBOSHO]

Wow. I paid 100 dollars LESS per tire for those michelins about 6 months ago. WTF.

BTW, I track with a guy that owns an E55 that has those EVO V12s and he loves them. He beats the **** out of his car, so he only gets around 10,000 miles out of them.

Yeah, I priced the Michelins late last year and it was around $726 for a set then......Serious price increase......

I'm impressed with those Hankooks....And at that price you can put almost 2 sets on the car so they are also a better value in terms of dollars per mile even though they don't last quite as long.....

 

[SpAz]

Update:

I brought my car into the dealership this morning and when I arrived I explained to the service guy that I made multiple phone calls yesterday to the larger dealers in this state and all service reps I talked to said the average wear period for the tires have been noted at 18,000 - low 20,000 mileage. I also told him that the Goodyear rep I spoke to affirmed what the dealers are seeing. Yesterday and the time prior to this that I brought it in I was told that the wear was 'normal' for these tires. After today the service guy said it does appear to be a quick wear period. So at least I have them admitting that it is abnormal.

My car was on the rack for about an hour and a half this morning. The assistant service manager said that everything looks right and the alignment sheet checked out.

He said they went ahead and took pictures of the entire front end and sent them off to ford. Conveniently the supervisor wasn't in so he wasn't able to take a look at it but he is going to look at the alignment sheet and photos later. After he talks to him and hears back from Ford he will be giving me a call.

I stopped by the dealer that services all of our fleet vehicles and talked to the owner. He said that something isn't right and that unfortunately I'm fighting an uphill battle between the dealership and Ford; both being large entities that could care less about losing one customer. Apparently he has a contact at Ford that he will be putting a call into to see what his opinion is.

So now I wait and I have no clue what else to do.

 

[SpAz]

UPDATE:

Got a call back from the dealer. They aren't willing to do anything and they believe everything to be fine.

I called Ford corporate and they believe the 'case' to be closed.

I have the option to take it to another shop to have them do a complete diagnostic on the front end of the vehicle but that will not be covered under warranty and I will have to pay for it out of pocket.

I have a phone call into someone that has a contact w/ ford customer relations and I will be getting a call back tomorrow.

If Ford or my dealership is unwilling to step up on this issue I will be getting out of this SHO and into a non ford product by the weekend.

Worst.Customer.Service.Ever.

 

[Zrolimit]

UPDATE:

Got a call back from the dealer. They aren't willing to do anything and they believe everything to be fine.

I called Ford corporate and they believe the 'case' to be closed.

I have the option to take it to another shop to have them do a complete diagnostic on the front end of the vehicle but that will not be covered under warranty and I will have to pay for it out of pocket.

I have a phone call into someone that has a contact w/ ford customer relations and I will be getting a call back tomorrow.

If Ford or my dealership is unwilling to step up on this issue I will be getting out of this SHO and into a non ford product by the weekend.

Worst.Customer.Service.Ever.

It sucks that you can't get satisfaction on this, but at the end of the day whether you own a Ford, Chevrolet, Honda, Nissan, Dodge, etc., I would bet the outcome would have been the same (unless you really dished out the cash for a higher end car; BMW, MB, etc., but then we wouldn't be reading about it here).

I think we can all attest to having an issue like this or similar with any dealership, but it shouldn't leave a bad taste in your mouth if you love your SHO. Getting rid of your car (if you truly love it...outside the tires of course) isn't going to even register a blip on the radar to Ford, and depending on how you purchased the car/plan to purchase a different car, could end up hurting you more. At this point you're out of pocket a little more than a grand for new tires; with a new car purchase, however, you're out even more. You can start by not giving your dealership anymore business via warranty repairs and vehicle servicing (which coincidentally is how dealerships make their money) and urge others in your area to not do the same.

Here's another thing to think about; a little "devil's advocate" if you will. If you were the owner of the dealership and you had an individual bring their SHO in with a similar issue, you were not able to find any issues with the vehicle and the individual wanted you to pay for new tires; what would you do? Even if you believe that a dealership should put customer service first, at the end of the day their not going to pay for anything unless it's justified or covered under warranty. In this case it sounds like the dealership exacerbated the issue with all of the work they had previously done, but there's no way to prove that unless another dealership or service technician can attest to their work causing this issue currently.

- Also I know most of your posts were probably in the heat of the moment and you already know all of this, just thought I'd say it just in case. Keep the SHO, get rid of the dealership! :angelnot:

 

[Blackwire1217]

X2 I don't think it's the cars fault, buy new tires from somewhere else and use a different dealer for your warranty work.

 

[Crazy8]

I think you are going way overboard with the tire issue. Get some Hankooks or Toyo's. Both are better tires than the Goodyears and close to half the price.

 

[SpAz]

Here's another thing to think about; a little "devil's advocate" if you will. If you were the owner of the dealership and you had an individual bring their SHO in with a similar issue, you were not able to find any issues with the vehicle and the individual wanted you to pay for new tires; what would you do? Even if you believe that a dealership should put customer service first, at the end of the day their not going to pay for anything unless it's justified or covered under warranty.

- Also I know most of your posts were probably in the heat of the moment and you already know all of this, just thought I'd say it just in case. Keep the SHO, get rid of the dealership! :angelnot:

I would be sensible enough to look at the mathematics and wear patterns on the car. If a customer came to me with documentation showing that at 5,000miles, right around the time i took apart the suspension/front end, there were 8/32" of thread (regardless if my service guys half ass the reports) then at 7,100miles, 8,600miles, and 10,000miles there is uneven and fast wear being noticed, and then finally at 12,500miles his tires are shot, I would raise some eyebrows.

I just looked at my service report from when they toyed with my front end for 7 days. It says 'Perform front end alignment check' yet I haven't been provided with a spec sheet like i was today. I called and told them to fax over the alignment specs from before and after the repairs. This was about an hour ago, no fax yet.....

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that all alignment information is automatically stored each time they put it on the rack correct?

 

[Zrolimit]

I would be sensible enough to look at the mathematics and wear patterns on the car. If a customer came to me with documentation showing that at 5,000miles, right around the time i took apart the suspension/front end, there were 8/32" of thread (regardless if my service guys half ass the reports) then at 7,100miles, 8,600miles, and 10,000miles there is uneven and fast wear being noticed, and then finally at 12,500miles his tires are shot, I would raise some eyebrows.

I just looked at my service report from when they toyed with my front end for 7 days. It says 'Perform front end alignment check' yet I haven't been provided with a spec sheet like i was today. I called and told them to fax over the alignment specs from before and after the repairs. This was about an hour ago, no fax yet.....

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that all alignment information is automatically stored each time they put it on the rack correct?

Totally understand, I was just trying to say that it's basically your word against theirs (them screwing up the alignment causing premature tire wear or you beating the **** out of the tires which we know didn't happen) and in the end they will typically win out.

Here's another thing to look at, which may or may not help. Look for the manufacturing date of the tires, and see if they are 5 years or older. They shouldn't be, but there is documentation (of which I would have to find) saying that tires over a certain age will wear prematurely and be prone to safety issues caused by dry rot and natural breakdown of the rubber.

Matter of fact here's a quick link I found on Google: http://www.wisebread.com/are-your-new-tires-really-6-year-old-ticking-time-bombs

Tire suppliers, vehicle companies and dealerships are aware of this and should not be supplying tires in this condition, but in this day and age...who knows?! I might be grasping at straws, but it's worth the check i would think. I've run into this issue before with my TOYO T1-Rs while looking for a good deal on the internet (typical pricing is well over $300 per tire).

As for the alignment information it should be in their system as a vehicle service history report (FoMoCo Service Database I believe,...don't quote me...LOL). Any dealership should be able to pull it up and provide the record to you as long as the service technician/manager actually put it into their system.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Yeah, I priced the Michelins late last year and it was around $726 for a set then......Serious price increase......

I'm impressed with those Hankooks....And at that price you can put almost 2 sets on the car so they are also a better value in terms of dollars per mile even though they don't last quite as long.....

On the Flex Net Forum, many Flex owners with non-EB 19" wheels have HanKooks as OEM tires. Almost everyone hates them. They haven't gotten much over 20-25K mi. Some (with pix) show very uneven wear. I would stay away from HanKooks from their experiences.

Remember, these cars are fairly heavy and predominately Front Wheel Drive, even though some power does go to the rear.

Good Luck.... But don't sell your SHO..:sun::sun::thankyou:

 

[SpAz]

So I called the service guy again asking for documentation of alignment after they performed the front end work. He said it will take him awhile to dig the information up.

A source I've been talking to said that if it they have to back search records the dealership more than likely did not perform the alignment. He mentioned something about the alignment rack automatically storing records of before and after specs for each time a car is on it, and if it takes a dealership this long to pull these records that more than likely means they didn't check the alignment themselves.

Can someone confirm this?

 

[SHOrod]

I doubt that all dealers use the same alignment equipment. It's been 13 years since my dad had his shop, but back then the alignment systems could print out the before and after details but did not back this data up to a central database. I've never known a shop to do this, but I also haven't asked or needed to inquire about it.

You could ask the shop why kind of alignment system they use, then research the system to find out what its capabilities are. Were the specs that you were provided this last time on a separate sheet or printed out directly on the service order? If a separate sheet, I would highly doubt that they system is tied in to their customer database, but you might be able to find out from that what brand the alignment machine is. If it's on the service order I would not be surprise if the data was manually entered.

-Rod

 

[thebigjimsho]

That's not the point.

The point is that these tires have obviously worn out prematurely and that it is not a cost I should absorb; especially after having gone through every other problem with this vehicle.

If every major dealership in this state has said 'wow, that is way too low of mileage to see such wear even on Eagle F1s' something is wrong and I shouldn't have to pay for it.

12,500 miles would be above average for a 2004-2007 CTS-V with the OEM F1 Supercars. Some guys with heavier right feet could wear out a rotated set in 7,000 miles. Get a different tire.

 

[mjhpadi]

I agree with you, but the kicker here is that these tires come with no mileage warranty (I think) so that's the out for both Ford and Goodyear. I feel for you, and hope you can get someone to listen to your situation, but I think you should expect not much from anyone. I would also remember this whenever you replace tires on any vehicle.

Since my SHO came with Michelin's I'm having every rotation of the tires documented on both the warranty book and the Michelin rotation record in case I have a problem with these tires. I'm beginning to believe that most tire manufacturers are not too keen on honoring their warranties, and basically dismissing any problems. Again, good luck with this, hope you can get some sort of satisfaction.