Timing belt

[Mike Kopstain]

Ok this is a long one, so if you have attention span problems move on to another post. (You probably already have )

Here is a little history. This car is a 3.2 MTX conversion. The owner had his mechanic put a new timing belt on. Not only did the mechanic not put the timing belt retaining disc on, but when we spun the crank around, the belt was off by about 6 teeth. Needless to say, the 2 lower timing covers are in multiple pieces and the top cover is now vented.

Now we went to put a timing belt on the car. Here is the problem, there is no mark on the dampener pully. There is a white mark on the inside (facing the engine block), but no white mark on the outer part. We tried lining up the white mark that is on there with the 0 degree mark and lined up the cams, but the 3.0 mark does not line up on the belt. Needless to say, the engine does not start, and we are very frustrated.

If anyone can offer an advice it is greatly appreciated. This is a customer's car so I am eager to get it going. Thanks.

~ Mike

 

[MOSHO92]

Would it help if someone could take a pic of the crank sprocket. I'm looking at mine an there is no white mark but a little dimple on mine. And that little dimple (when lined up correctly) is not a zero degrees but more like 4 or 5 O'clock. Hope that helps a little. BTW i'd attach a pic but i have no website to link from.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Well as I have it, you line up the white mark on the dampener with 0 degrees and that will put the dimple about 5 0 clock so that the belt matches up. The dimple isn't what you line up to the cover.

Man, I don't know. I feel really stupid for not being able to grasp this basic concept. frown

 

[olympic]

Some good pics by Scott http://www.shoforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=003023#000004

Check SHOtimes for more info as well. I'm not sure if I'm reading your post right, but I don't think you should have the dampner on the engine while trying to install the timing belt. All the marks you need to line up are on the crank gear and cam gears.

The dimple on crank gear lines up with the tab on the housing at the 5 o'clock position. Dimples on the cam gears line up with the marks on the timing cover. Yellow lines on the belt line up with the dimples on all 3 gears.

 

[sdpatt]

When installing a new belt or reinstalling an old belt, first align the camshaft pulleys so that the index marks on the pulleys are in line with the ridge on the rear metal timing cover at the 12:00 position. Align the crankshaft pulley so that the index dimple on the tooth is at approximately 5:00 (keyway at approximately 11:00). Position the belt with the two white marks aligned with the camshaft index marks and adjust the crankshaft position as necessary to get the index mark on the tooth in line with the appropriate white mark (3.0L or 3.2L) on the timing belt. Set the belt tension as directed by the procedure. After the first revolution of the crankshaft, ignore the white marks on the timing belt when checking the crank and cam alignment. Those white marks are only used during the installation.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Mikeys_Taurus:
We tried lining up the white mark that is on there with the 0 degree mark and lined up the cams, but the 3.0 mark does not line up on the belt.

Make sure you have the belt facing in the right direction! If standing on the passenger side of the motor looking at the top of the timing belt the writing on the belt should be upside-down!

There should also be an index 'ridge' on the oil pump housing with which you can line up the dimple on the timing sprocket.

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: SHOooo ]</small>

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Align the crankshaft pulley so that the index dimple on the tooth is at approximately 5:00 (keyway at approximately 11:00). Position the belt with the two white marks aligned with the camshaft index marks and adjust the crankshaft position as necessary to get the index mark on the tooth in line with the appropriate white mark (3.0L or 3.2L) on the timing belt.

Well this is odd. This is what we tried initially and no go. Now I'm sure this problem is timing related because we had it running earlier, just out of time. This is starting to concern me. Cams were lined up correctly (dimple at 12:00 matched to the line in the inner timing cover, lines on belt matched up)

 

[fredhurderjr]

Got the belt reading the correct way? Standing at the passenger side, the belt's text should be upside-down (legible from the driver's fender)

Also, are the cam gears installed correctly? If they lost the retainer disc, and they were doing a crank sensor, that means that they may have lost the dowel pin if they removed to cam gears to get to the rear timing cover (metal). Install one or both of those wrong & the timing's way off too.

Got the cam sensor plugged in?

 

[sdpatt]

When you put a new belt on, this is what it should look like. No other arrangement will properly time the camshafts.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Well I am sure the belt is on correctly. The text is upside down and all the marks line up. I have done this before and never had this problem. I can only assume that Fred is correct about the crank sprocket being on wrong.

My next question: Fred, how do I fix this. I have never run into this problem before.

Perhaps I should change the name to Midwest SHO Novice.

 

[EZ4U2ENVY]

Once timing is off- im sure its hard to find the orignal spot again- but i think like someone else said.. the cams sprockets could have been miss aligned and off- causing the timing to be off no matter where the belt is. The car should run with the timing off- so basically make sure the cams are aligned on the cams correctly with that little pin

than align the marks on the timing belt and pu ti ton the crack where you think it should go- from there try starting the engine to see if theres any noise- if there is take timing belt off and move it one tooth at a time until you get it right- only advice i could think of to fix this problem- since your at square one with no other options.

 

[pjtoledo]

Mikeys_Taurus:
Well I am sure the belt is on correctly. The text is upside down and all the marks line up. I have done this before and never had this problem. I can only assume that Fred is correct about the crank sprocket being on wrong.

My next question: Fred, how do I fix this. I have never run into this problem before.

Perhaps I should change the name to Midwest SHO Novice.

There is only one way to put a crank sprocket on. It has 3 small holes on the back for the vane, 2 large holes on the front for a puller. By the way, that "washer" is called a slinger. You know, before I hit the ADD REPLY button, I should take a look at one, this might get embarrassin' I'm off to the basement!!!


Perry Toledo,Ohio

 

[Yamaha V6]

There's are 4 holes in each cam & cam sprocket Mike - 3 for the bolts, 1 for the dowel. Check to make sure that a) the dowels are there, or b) make sure the dowel holes line up. The round disc for the cam gears covers the dowel so it won't fall out once bolted onto the cam.

Somehow, I don't think this is your problem though, especially if you had it running before.

If you have a Helm's, walk through the process step by step on the complete disassembly. If you're 180 degrees off on one cam, could be the vane on the rear exhaust cam (cam sensor) is on backwards (not sure if this is possible), or the cam timing chain sprocket is on wrong. If you have a failed chain tensioner in the head, you can do some nasty things to timing (among other things) in the head.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Well the dowels are there and the cams are lined up. The crank sprocket is on correct. I haven't had the valve covers off yet, but there didn't seem to be any odd noises other than a rough idle when we had it running (out of time).