Technical Dispute with local shop

[hoss]

ATX Trans Problems

I could find no place better to put my problem than here, because it is a transmission based problem.

Here's the story:

Trans was slipping in '95 ATX, and decided to take it to a local shop for diagnosis. I dropped it one evening a couple weeks back with the keys in the car, and called the next day to tell them that it slips "when you get on it" and to see if they could take a look at it for me. Please note: I did not sign a night-drop slip or repair order...
A couple days went by with no response, so I called and all the owner of the busness could tell me was that it was diagnosed as an internal problem and had to be rebuilt... that's probebly true, although i was hoping for a modulator or solenoid or something not so big.

Anyway, no contact with the business for about 1.5 weeks, and i went there today after reading posts and how-to's and deciding to take it on myself. When I got there, the guy told me there was nothing written up on it, since "they really hadn't done anything yet" and asked the "test-driver" what he did. The driver said that all he noticed was that it slips "when you get into it". I kindly informed him that that is what I told them when I dropped it off and was wondering if they had pulled any codes. He then changed his story to say that he ran codes and drove it with the scanned hooked up and watched the parameters and everything looked okay.

I told the owner i would like my keys back and i would do it myself. He said if he got $50 for diagnosis, i could have my keys back. He went to get the keys before i paid anything, and could not find them. After looking for my keys in and around the shop for 15 minutes, i got fed up and said to call me when he finds them.

Here's my question(s):

Is there any real-time data streams in the 95 model year? I don't think so. Also, unless i am mistaken, the test port is under the hood, and wood be awefully funny looking driving down the road with it plugged in up there.

Also, if i didn't sign any paperwork, and there is nothing written up on it, should i have to pay anything? If I remember correctly, it is a Michigan law that a customer has to be provided with a written repair order upon request and BEFORE any work is done on a vehicle, there needs to be a signed repair order or night drop slip.

Any help would be greatly appreciated on this topic. Thank you for your time.

 

[SASHO91]

yes, there are modules that have live feedback.. did it with my 93 at school one day... very cool stuff... shows alot of good stuff.... so that is possible. Ours was a Genesis...

about the 50 bucks.. i dont know the laws or anything... but if they didnt write anything up, and you didnt sign anything i wouldnt pay it.. allthough, they could be charging you for keeping the car there... but without paper work, or anything SHOWING that they did a diagonstic scan, well, i wouldnt pay.

 

[nik97]

Unless you singed a repair/preliminary estimate order or gave verbal consent, you are not responsible for any charges. I'm pretty sure there's not a lot to look at with an NGS as far as trans parameters. I think most of the electronic diag must be tone with a Hitchcock transmission tester.

 

[SASHO91]

yeah, i should of added that...
as it is possible for them to hook up a machine, and drive with it... I dont think it would show all to much. Considering its OBD-I.... but im sure that it will show some info...

 

[Yamaha V6]

Pay the $50. They are there to make a buck, you asked them to perform a service, and they did that. In writing or not, that what you intended.
Be a man about it.

You also left the car in their lot for a couple of weeks. Unless you're prepared to pay normal & standard storage fees per day it was left there, I'd simply pay the money.
Be smart about it.

Aside from that, and not knowing the laws of your state... Legally, I honestly don't know that you do or don't owe them the $50. Because you didn't fill out any paperwork / sign, the liability goes both ways. Who says they are liable for your car if it disappears or if someone mysteriously drives over it with a monster truck. Basically, without a signed sheet, you abandoned the vehicle.
Be whatever you want about it, it's your car.

Good luck with the situation, hope it all works out smoothly.

 

[1995mtxsho]

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ar0097_16020_7.pdf

Michigan law requires you to give every customer a written estimate when the cost of repairing a vehicle is $20 or more. This means you must hand-deliver, fax, mail, or e-mail the written estimate to the customer – whether or not the customer requests it.

However this document mentions nothing about diagnostics or anything of the like.

I beleive this is a loop-hole or grey-area that ends up compensating the shop's lost time/labor hour monitary loss in situations just like this.

IMO you are likely better off paying it, as much as I would hate to do the same myself.
Next time research the issue and evaluate if you can tackle it yourself before having a shop look at it.

You could try to get out of it by stating lines from this document, and others like it, but since you own an ATX, you just may end up shooting yourself in the foot by making an enemy you may likely need in the future.

ATX transaxel repair is intimidating for a reason; they are very complex, have ba'zillions of, often small, parts, and are a general pain to deal with.

 

[hoss]

Hey, guys!

First of all I would like to say thanks for all the thoughts and comments...

Here's the update:

I went over there today and they said they found my keys, in Mackinac city, about 45 minutes away! They left my keys in her car for night pickup and she brought her spares and drove the car away with mine in there. The owner said that I can come pick it up with my spare set and he'll get my fob and key back to me, or if he can't, he'll get a new key cut and fob from the Ford dealer. I don't owe him anything because of all the trouble. I guess everything did work out! That makes me happy .

Anyway, now i just need to decide what to do, either buy another trans, rebuild mine myself, or pay someone to do it. I'm heading to Ferris in a month, and don't have tons of money, but need the car for going to school. So, i don't really know what to do. I hope i can do it myself, I have already rebuilt the 302 in Granada from the ground up, as well as the C-4 transmisison behind it. So I do have a little experience... but I guess there's a first time for everything.

Alright, thanks again to everyone as always, comments and questions are always welcome!

Adam

 

[Denny]

Well considering that everything turned out in your favor in the end with no charge, I think that alone says this shop is about fair and honest business pratices. At first I would have said pay the $50 as well rather than say you would not and then have them come back say well it's $50/day to leave your vehicle on our lot. If you're in a time crunch and want this done right, it's gonna cost money. I'd probably give them a chance.

 

[Black '93]

Well considering that everything turned out in your favor in the end with no charge, I think that alone says this shop is about fair and honest business pratices. At first I would have said pay the $50 as well rather than say you would not and then have them come back say well it's $50/day to leave your vehicle on our lot. If you're in a time crunch and want this done right, it's gonna cost money. I'd probably give them a chance.

Seems like an honest shop to me... I'd yank the tranny out myself, then take it to them to save big $$ in removal and installation. Tell them you want only the best heavy duty springs, bands and clutches they can get. You should be able to get all of that for only $700 compared to like $1400 if they pull and install.

 

[hoss]

Seems like an honest shop to me... I'd yank the tranny out myself, then take it to them to save big $$ in removal and installation. Tell them you want only the best heavy duty springs, bands and clutches they can get. You should be able to get all of that for only $700 compared to like $1400 if they pull and install.

true, i may consider that route as well. as long as i can be sure it will hold up for a while. they did mention a warranty, so i'll ask if they can put heavy duty stuff in it.

thanks guys

 

[hoss]

K, trans is finally out, and I think I'll call them tomorrow as well as a couple other shops to see if they can build be a stronger trans with a warranty... wish me luck

Thanks guys!

 

[SHOblime]

Uhhh hate to burst your bubble but there isn't anything illegal about charging a fee for diagnosis. Unless there was a sign outside advertising FREE diagnosis of problems then you don't really have a case, as he took time to check out your trans. If he didnt actually do what he said and doesn't have any paperwork at all then maybe you have something...

 

[hoss]

... If he didnt actually do what he said and doesn't have any paperwork at all then maybe you have something...

Just to clearify, I was not gonna pay the fee for two reasons:

1. There was absoloutly nothing written up for me. I requested any kind of W.O. or anything written and could produce nothing. They even lost my phone number after I left it with them.
2. They lost my keys and fob as well. in fact, i got the car with my spare key about a week ago, and they still haven't gotten my key and fob back yet.

Later