Subframe bolt issue

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iSpyder

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Hey guys,

Was working on replacing my sway and subframe bushings and my end links. Everything was going fairly smoothly until I went to re-install the rear subframe bushings with new subframe bolts. The bolts won't seem to thread properly. It seems like it starts to thread but then get really difficult to tighten and isn't even close to being fully threaded. Any ideas on what might be causing the problem or tricks on getting these threaded properly? The old bolts came out easily so I don't think it was cross threaded previously but who knows.

Thanks!

Erik
 

Eric VerValin

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If it had a subframe recall done, which I would imagine so if it was a PA car... you can pull the carpet back inside and get to the nut. Should be a big 3" or so rubber plug above where that bolt would go. :)

Edit: didn't see the V8 forum lol I maybe completely wrong.. :)
 
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iSpyder

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I was wondering about the recall. I didn't think there was one for a Gen III but your edit seems t0 explain that. :)

Paul you referrring to a tap or a chaser? I thought if I used a tap it would make the hole slightly bigger and the bolt unusable? Maybe though I'm just confused.
 

iSpyder

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Ok, I bought a rethreading kit but I'm still having no luck. What's odd is I can get the rethread to thread the nut and and the rethread to thread the bolt. But the bolt still won't thread into the nut. Am I really up a creek here?
 

iSpyder

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officially screwed

Well I'm f'd. I just broke the rethreading die on the other nut and now it's stuck. I figured I would try to the other side to see if I had better luck there. Unfortunately it was even worse. Now what do I do? I don't see any way to get to these nuts. I pulled up the carpeting inside the car but didn't see any access point.

I'm so frustrated at this point. I really felt like things were going so smoothly until now.
 

Eric VerValin

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Man that really stinks... vise grips on the die maybe? I assume you mean Tap? Anyway... lets figure this out. You have the carpet back under the glove box right? If the recall was done there should be a ********* rubber plug. It'll be round and about the size of a baseball almost. It should be off to the side by the door. If not you may be looking at cutting a hole.

And now that I think about it... it just kind of dawned on me... when I put mine back in... it did the same thing... I could get it to hand thread about 5-10 turns, then it wanted to get really tight. Not tight to where I couldn't turn it by hand with a 1/2" drive. But definately what seemed tight or almost cross threaded.

I'd say this... if you don't want to try to cut a hole, assuming there isn't a hole there... you might have luck getting a dealer to do that one with the tap broke off in it. They'll have to cut the hole anyway, and when they do they can remove that nut with ease from the inside.

You should be fine to drive it (not on the highway tho) a little ways if your careful and cautious with the bumps and stuff, with only 3 subframe bolts in there.

All that being said, you just needed a break from it... you'll figure it out, I been there.. and can tell ya that you'll get it... nothing good is ever easy. ;)
 

SHOZ123

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No recall on the GEN 3s. There is a TSB dealing with the nuts spinning and replacement similar to the Gen 1-2 recall. TSB Printable View (31 KB)
Article No.
97-25-2 SUBFRAME - FRONT AND REAR RETENTION NUTS SPIN DURING REMOVAL

Publication Date: DECEMBER 8, 1997

FORD: 1996-98 TAURUS
LINCOLN-MERCURY: 1995-98 CONTINENTAL
1996-98 SABLE


This TSB article is being republished in its entirety to update the model year coverage and the service parts list.

ISSUE:
The subframe front and rear retention nuts may spin if removal is required or the subframe bolt may break due to the excessive force required to break the bond from the adhesive on the bolt.

ACTION:
If it becomes necessary to remove the subframe attaching bolts and the retention nuts spin during the removal procedure, replace the front retention nuts by referring to the following Service Procedure. Replace the rear retention nuts located in the unibody by referring to the instructions listed in the repair kit. The repair kit will repair one (1) subframe attachment.

SERVICE PROCEDURE
NOTE: USE THIS PROCEDURE ONLY IF THE RETAINING NUTS SPIN AND THE BOLTS CANNOT BE REMOVED.



NOTE: BEFORE STARTING THIS PROCEDURE, MAKE SURE THAT THE SUBFRAME IS SUPPORTED PROPERLY.



Use the following procedure to replace the plate nut at the subframe-to-body FRONT attachment location.

From under the vehicle, cut the head off the subframe body mount bolt with a metal cutting saw. This will allow for the removal of the subframe/engine assembly from the vehicle.
CAUTION: THE LOWER ABSORBER IS COMPRESSED AND WILL EXPAND ONCE THE BOLT HEAD IS CUT THROUGH. EXERCISE CARE TO AVOID INJURY.



Locate the 51mm (2") square hole on the inside wall of the front rail near the lower body mounts. It will be necessary to remove the anti-lock hydraulic control unit to access this hole on the LH side (Figure 1).


Figure 1 - Article 97-25-2


Through this access hole, bend the existing cage top plate upright and remove the plate nut and bolt (Figure 1).
Position the new Plate Nut (F7DZ-5410158-A) in place and bend the tab down to retain the plate nut.
Remount the subframe, driving the new Bolt (N804442-S426, Taurus/Sable or W705311-S426, Continental) at a higher torque of 103 N-m (76 lb-ft).
NOTE: ONLY THE REPAIRED LOCATION SHOULD BE DRIVEN AT THE NEW TORQUE; ALL OTHER SUBFRAME MOUNTS SHOULD BE REPAIRED USING THE NORMAL TORQUE OF 90 N-m (66 LB-FT).



Use the Instruction Sheet contained in the Subframe Nut Service Kit (F8DZ-AA) to replace the plate nut at the subframe-to-body REAR attachment position.

The Subframe Nut Service Kit (F8DZ-AA) consists of the following:

Four (4) Rivets
One (1) Nut
One (1) Panel Cover
One (1) Instruction Sheet
NOTE: THE SUBFRAME NUT SERVICE KIT DOES NOT CONTAIN THE BOLT NEEDED. ORDER THE BOLT AS LISTED IN THE FOLLOWING PARTS BLOCK.




PART NUMBER PART NAME
F8DZ-54200A40-AA Subframe Nut Service Kit, Right Side, Rear Only
F8DZ-54200A41-AA Subframe Nut Service Kit, Left Side, Rear Only
F7DZ-5410158-A Plate Nut
N804442-S426 M12x1.75x112 Hex Bolt (Taurus/Sable)
W705311-S426 M12x1.75x112 Hex Bolt (Continental)


OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:
NONE

SUPERSEDES:
97-19-3

WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under The Provisions Of Bumper To Bumper Warranty Coverage

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
972502AT Replace Subframe Retention Nuts - Both Front 0.6 Hr.
972502A Replace Subframe Retention Nut - One Front 0.3 Hr.
972502BT Replace Subframe Retention Nuts - Both Rear 1.0 Hr.
972502B Replace Subframe Retention Nut - One Rear 0.6 Hr.
972502C Additional Time If Equipped With ABS - Continental (To Be Used Only If Front Left Retention Nut Is Replaced) 1.5 Hrs.
972502D Additional Time If Equipped With ABS - Taurus/Sable (To Be Used Only If Front Left Retention Nut Is Replaced) 1.8 Hrs.

DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
54200A40 16

OASIS CODES:
111000, 304000, 305000, 702000, 702100, 702300

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
97-25-2
 

iSpyder

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Thanks guys,

Eric - Yea, the tap is what I'm referring too. I wish I had 3 subframe bolts on but I only have 2. One nut has the tap in it and the other just won't let the bolt thread all the way through. For the latter though I might be able to get the bolt in a few turns if that will allow me to drive it somewhere.

Paul - Thanks for all that info. Since it's my rear bushings which are a problem I guess I need to get the subframe recall kit for the directions? Or do wouldn't happen to have these as well? Is that part number you list (F8DZ-AA) what I should go to the dealership with to get what I need. It looks like it contains everything but the bolt but then there were some other part numbers listed that I wasn't sure if they were necessary. Sorry for all the questions but I just want try and get this fixed. I'm guessing this is all going to wait till Monday though.

Again all my thanks.

Erik
 

Mr Anonymous

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The subframe plate nuts are what are called prevailing torque nuts, which essentially means the top of the nut is crimped or distorted so as to make it self-locking. This means that you will not be able to thread the bolt through past the convoluted threads, and even with a wrench there will always be some resistance. It also means that you risk breaking a tap or chase if you try running one through it. Oops.

As long as you feel the bolt thread in by hand OK on the first few threads, then all you have to do it put a wrench to it to tighten it up the rest of the way. The key to not cross threading subframe bolts/nuts is to make sure they are going in perfectly straight, which usually means jacking up the subframe so the bushings are flush against the chassis. Many times people will try to use the subframe bolt to "pull up" the subframe, and the bolt will start into the nut at an angle and futz up the threads.
 

iSpyder

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...Many times people will try to use the subframe bolt to "pull up" the subframe, and the bolt will start into the nut at an angle and futz up the threads.

Guilty...:frown:

I bet this was the cause of all my problems to begin with. The passengers side may go up smoothly if I install the bolt "correctly" by lifting up the subframe. I may give it a shot this afternoon.

I ordered both kits this morning although I'm thinking I may just need the drivers side since it has the tap broken in it. I figured though it couldn't hurt to have the other side just in case. Hopefully they get here soon

Thanks again.
 

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