Still Won't Start

[Andrew Tilson]

My poor SHO still won't start, we put a pressure gauge on the fuel lines and it wasn't holding fuel pressure, we replaced the pump and filter now it has pressure, plugs still look new and my timing light says it has spark. I ran a compression check and all cylinders were 90-95 psi
on the El cheapo autozone gauge. I pulled codes from the computer

157 MAF
219 SPOUT connector Open
542 Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit Failure

anyone know which is my problem?

 

[Andrew Tilson]

also its something that happened suddenly, I was pulling up to a stop light and it just died, and wouldn't start back up

 

[Andrew Tilson]

Ideas??

 

[Twisted99]

Andrew,
Not sure what my problem is either but I checked the grounding strap on passenger side and found it off. Now when I crank it over I get about 700
rpm on the tach instead of the 2-300 I was getting with the strap not grounded. Trouble is she still will not start. I thought it was My fuel pump but I checked it and it pressures up.
No spark at the front three plugs. 11.5 volts at the red/lite green wires on both the DIS module and the coil pack connection. I changed the cam position sensor on mine last year so I`m thinkin` it should still be good. I pulled codes and got a 111 which is a system pass. I`m at a loss as to what is stopping us from starting? Maybe a bad DIS module.not sure how to test this.
I`ll post if I hunt down any fix. You do the same please. Seems everyone else is busy.

Jeff

<small>[ June 15, 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Twisted99 ]</small>

 

[Andrew Tilson]

My DIS is good, I have fuel pressure, checked grounding strap last night too. still connected tightly I need to know if anybody has an idea if not I guess I'm going to have to have it towed to the dealer *cringe*

 

[AutoSHO]

Did you check the SPOUT connector? It is located on the passenger side of the intake manifold right next to the Fuel Pressure Regulator.

If that isn't the problem, then your crank position sensor has failed (PIP - Primary Ignition Pickup). It is fairly common on these cars. Go to Shotimes and read the procedure there on the 60K/Replacing the CPS. Good Luck!

<small>[ June 15, 2002, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: AutoSHO ]</small>

 

[Andrew Tilson]

what does that connector look like? I know the cps is still good because the tach is still moving

 

[sdpatt]

That compression measurement is very low. The cylinder pressure should be up around 180-200 psig. How long a hose did you have attached to the cylinder? The volume of the hose adds to the volume of the cylinder and lowers the effective compression.

The 542 code came from the engine stalling, so that is a result of the problem rather than the cause. Neither the MAF sensor or SPOUT circuit open will cause the engine to quit. It won't perform as well as it should, but it should still run. The SPOUT connector is a shorting plug inthe wiring harness that also contains the CID sensor connector. You will find the SPOUT plug near the CID sensor at the passenger side rear coner of the engine.

Have you verified that you have spark at the plugs? Pull a plug boot (not a plug - you don't want sparks and combustible fuel/air both outside the cylinder) and insert a bolt or other metal rod. Don't touch the body of the car with any portion of your anatomy. Have someone crank the engine and keep the bolt about 1/4" from the block. There should be a STRONG spark.

If you do not see a spark, your crankshaft position sensor is highly suspect as the cause of your malady. Even if you have a spark, that low cylinder presure is a great concern. Are you sure it was measured properly?

 

[Andrew Tilson]

not really sure if the gauge I used was accurate it was a cheap one from autozone, the hose was about a foot long I guess. the parts counter at ford thinks that its a crank sensor too, but I thought that if that was bad I wouldn't get any tach reading? they tell me that that's not true that it can fail and have the tach still work

they also want 135 bucks for the sensor

at autozone its $42

 

[projectSHO89]

FWIW, the AZ one for $42 works just fine.

Steve

 

[sdpatt]

I actually recommend the Wells SU242 CPS from AutoZone for $42.99. It seems to be a superior product and has serviced well in all of the installations where I have used it.

Scott

 

[Andrew Tilson]

is it possible for the cps to be bad if the tach still moves?, it still reads 700-800 rpm when cranking

 

[Andrew Tilson]

does anybody have intstructions on how to check for a bad coil pack?

 

[Andrew Tilson]

has good spark 42psi fuel pressure, but still won't start, air filter is very clean, no birds cats, etc. in the intake track put it on scanner even and it still only gives us the same three codes. we are trying to reset the computer tonight to clear the codes we will try it again tomorrow night.

 

[Andrew Tilson]

gave it a shot of ether today figured I'd tried all my good ideas so it was time for a bad one, still didn't fire not even a backfire. this suggests to me an ignition fault of some sort, anybody have a clue???? because I sure don't

 

[Andrew Tilson]

gonna have it towed back to my house in the morning, gonna try a couple more things, then I'm just going to dismantle the blasted thing til I see what's wrong

 

[sholove1]

my car has been to the mechanics and back for a month now and we have replaced many parts ( crank and cam sensors,fuel pump,fuel pump relay,belts,just to mention a few )and it still was stalling. now he tells me he thinks he's found the problem to be the IRAM(ignition relay control module) located by the fuel pump relay between radiator and dr. side headlt. he wants to test drive it a second day to make sure. we've been standed and towed like you and were VERY frustrated. maybe this will keep you on right path or help some. i'm anxious to get it back and find out for sure. last night had auto zone read codes on my 84 camaro and found the problem and he said he could and would of done the same for my sho-wish i'd of known that before. also there's a writeup on self code reading procedure at shotimes website.
dkw
94 mtx

 

[Off Road SHO]

Andrew,
Don't call for a tow truck. I have a tilt bed car hauling trailer. I'll pick you up and take it to your house for you. I work at the airport almost every day. Call me. I'll help you out.

Tom

 

[Off Road SHO]

Andy,

Have you gotten it started yet? I'm heading down to the airport to get some software at my construction trailer. I could meet you there with my trailer. I sent you an e-mail with my phone numbers.

Tom

 

[Andrew Tilson]

Well with the help of Tom (thanx a lot) we got it back to my house. I finally tore it down today and I found something interesting my "new timing belt (less than 2k miles) is stretched and has slipped the marks are about 90 degrees apart gee, I wonder why I had no compression

I bought the belt at pep boys because it was the cheapest belt I could find locally it is a Dynaflex brand belt is this brand inherently bad or did I just get a bad one? what brand do you recommend? (cheap please)