Simultaneously broke both turbos

[JAMES'12SHO]

hi guys, I recently while being immature, managed to break my car again. I have this bad habit of pushing it harder than a car should be pushed. I was accelerating from about 70 to 130mph flat out and then the car kinda hit a wall figuratively speaking. Then I found I had 0 boost pressure. Apparently our cars don’t do so well at accelerating at 7000 ft elevation with no boost. But the STI did lose so that makes me feel better. Anyways, I limped it home 20 or so miles and then checked it out. Turbo shafts are both broken. My guess is that I am a little low on oil and staved the turbos. I have no engine codes and was definitely not expecting this. I have 80695 miles on it and had the transmission replaced at 76000 due to beating a G37. Am I likely correct in the oil being the problem? I am in no way easy on my cars when I am being expeditions, so I know I am at fault. But I didn’t get the car to always be slow. So I kind of expect the car to handle the occasional sprint to 150 or so. I was however extremely surprised at the vehicles ability to cope with no turbos while getting me home. Shouldn’t I have gotten a low boost fault of some kind? Anyway, I would appreciate any input and advice on the subject that you guys might have.

 

[SHOdded]

You would think there would be a code. Did you check the PCM, or are you going strictly by engine lights?

Most/all the codes I see are reference to either a wastegate fault or a sensor fault. Regardless, the failure of the turbos to respond to commanded boost should have been picked up if the remaining turbo system was intact and only the turbo shafts failed. An underboost condition code such as P0299 is a common occurrence when the turbo itself fails.

Is the oil clean/clear of any debris/grit? Check the intercooler also as damage may be hiding in there.

How low were you on oil? What oil/filter have you been using? If you don't maintain the powertrain under special operating condition schedules, you cannot expect it to be stable under high demand situations. Fords have always loved fresh fluids.

 

[luigisho]

The problem with all the SHO's 1989-2019 is they weren't developed to do what an owner would expect it to do when pushing it hard. You need to change all the driveline fluids by now in addition to fixing whatever broke on the engine.

 

[Jeff2017]

Are you running a tune? If so, it is not surprising that things like the tranny and turbos are starting to fail at > 80k miles. Especially if you push the car to its limits frequently.

 

[JAMES'12SHO]

You would think there would be a code. Did you check the PCM, or are you going strictly by engine lights?

Most/all the codes I see are reference to either a wastegate fault or a sensor fault. Regardless, the failure of the turbos to respond to commanded boost should have been picked up if the remaining turbo system was intact and only the turbo shafts failed. An underboost condition code such as P0299 is a common occurrence when the turbo itself fails.

Is the oil clean/clear of any debris/grit? Check the intercooler also as damage may be hiding in there.

How low were you on oil? What oil/filter have you been using? If you don't maintain the powertrain under special operating condition schedules, you cannot expect it to be stable under high demand situations. Fords have always loved fresh fluids.

Thanks for the reply. It was based on the cel not actually checking. A scan revealed a P0087 low fuel rail pressure. The freeze data showed 2500 rpm and 0 mph with coolant temp at 199. This scenario doesn’t make sense but I didn’t get a report on how long that code was logged. I use Mobil 1 synthetic and ATP filter. The one that says 15000 miles on it. I haven’t visually proved the shafts have snapped either, just an auditory analysis based on the noises while idle and driving forward a little. The oil is quite low as only about a half inch of the dipstick shows oil (2-2.25 quarts maybe). I read somewhere that the timing set goes out first with low oil in an EcoBoost. The oil on the dipstick reeks of fuel and is definitely dirty. So my negligence has caused this. This is my first daily driven turbo car that I was responsible for maintenance on and now I need to know what’s next to get it going again. I figured big metal parts go to the intercooler and small go to the oil pan right? That is why those two areas are important to check. I see one of the guys on here said to replace all drivetrain fluids now. The tranny has been so he is talking ptu right? The car still has a warranty but turbos are specifically excluded so ptu fluid change isn’t approved per warranty as it is not a Manufacturer recommendation. I would like to keep this car as 5 seats are important and slow isn’t for me. What is the best course of action?

 

[JAMES'12SHO]

Are you running a tune? If so, it is not surprising that things like the tranny and turbos are starting to fail at > 80k miles. Especially if you push the car to its limits frequently.

Yes it’s a canned tune from sct and unfortunately the tuner is bricked so the tune whether good or bad is there. I had some gauges in the osb port that I guess snagged my leg and damaged some pins so any obd info can be a pain to get. The tuner was especially sensitive to this pin damage as I understand it. No reply from my one attempt to contact sct though. Plus my warranty provider doesn’t care so I haven’t pushed the issue. I do feel that driving style probably has more to do with reliability that the tune. As I have broken every car I’ve owned.(I think I am in the upper 40’s as far as how many) I guess the surprise comes from how well a broken car got me home and having little knowledge about turbos, that they broke as opposed to seized up slowly lost boost due to bearing friction.

 

[luigisho]

You need a good tech to give a mechanical analysis and go from there. PTU RDU all the lubricants in the drive system should be replaced. Their fluid recommendation with your driving style is asking for trouble. You need to check the intercooler for fluid in it as well. Coolant change and oil change. This is a recurring theme on this model across several forums.

 

[SHOdded]

Low fuel pressure is due to a fuel control module, the delivery module (lo pressure fuel pump) or high pressure fuel pump. If the engine sounds rhythmic at idle with cover removed, most likely the control module is at fault. These issues were noted on 2013+, not sure about 2010-12, have to lookup tsbs on EBPF. The lpfp rarely fails, except for that recall on 2013s.

Definitely have to a visual inspection of the turbos and turbo tract. Not sure why no turbo related codes were stored. The system is very good in that regard.

Def keep the ptu rdu fluids fresh, but tranny and engine oil too. I bet there is a lot of buildup in the intercooler, but 2-2.5 qts low is a lot. Still not a dealbreaker by itself. Do you know for sure what level it was at after the last oil change?

My fear is broken piston ring and lost compression. So def check compression on all cylinders.

 

[b4black]

I haven’t visually proved the shafts have snapped either, just an auditory analysis based on the noises while idle and driving forward a little.

I doubt you broke one shaft, let one two at the same time. Take a look at you intercooler piping and such. You likely just blew a hose.

 

[JAMES'12SHO]

I doubt you broke one shaft, let one two at the same time. Take a look at you intercooler piping and such. You likely just blew a hose.

I appreciate the reply as all of your replies give me good avenues to look into. However I didn’t explain that for the last month or so I could hear the turbos whine as I drove. I have no intake or exhaust mods except for a drop in k&n. So hearing them doesn’t usually happen. This suggested to me that the turbos bearings are worn. Then the issue at full boost 130mph. Blown hose fits that scenario great. The metallic grinding form both turbos with no boost, however suggest a mechanical failure to me. I have to put a front axle and water pump into my 99 suburban as that fix is cheaper and faster. Then I will tear down the sho and get pictures for everyone. It will probably be a couple of weeks as my garage is full of sport bike projects and it gets cold in Colorado. Thanks again and I hope that it ends up being a simple issue, but the chunks of metal banging around the intake is worse than good I suspect.

 

[SHOdded]

ah, first mention of grinding. yeah, that would be a problem. most likely bad bearings and destroyed compressor wheels. Does the oil or intercooler have any debris? If not, it was a lucky escape. I would make that determination first.

 

[SM105K]

No sorry about your troubles bud. However, this thread just wreaks of "what not to do with a SHO".

 

[luigisho]

No sorry about your troubles bud. However, this thread just wreaks of "what not to do with a SHO".

Ha. We're all thinkin it.

But if you have the money, garage, skill and time it's all good. James, keep posting updates when you track down the issue.

 

[SM105K]

Ha. We're all thinkin it.

But if you have the money, garage, skill and time it's all good. James, keep posting updates when you track down the issue.

I actually mistyped my post. I was suppose to say...

I am sorry about your troubles bud. However, this thread just wreaks of "what not to do with a SHO".

I wasn't trying to come off as that much of a *****.

 

[JAMES'12SHO]

I actually mistyped my post. I was suppose to say...

I am sorry about your troubles bud. However, this thread just wreaks of "what not to do with a SHO".

I wasn't trying to come off as that much of a *****.

I get it. I mentioned that I have broken all my cars that I’ve ever owned. It’s not just what not to do with a SHO as I am terrible with every vehicle. I am not offended. Sorry for taking so long on this project. But here is the update for what I currently know.
The turbo seals are blown and the technicians say I need new turbos. They quoted $7500. I bought the new turbos from Ford and they came three weeks apart. The gaskets, seals, bolts and washers were $140 which sounds high but fresh hardware sounded like the right thing to do. The weather has been terrible and my car is under 2 feet of snow from that bomb cyclone. They shop only wants $900 for labor so that’s my plan. I am not made of money so it might take me another 2-3 weeks to budget out the money plus I want to have the intercooler cleaned out as well as the ptu. I am hoping $1200 will finish out the job. I still haven’t done a compression check or gone into the engine much at all. The oil was thick and dirty and smelled like gas but had no chunks or shavings of metal in it. I specified in my initial post that I was immature. That extends into my maintenance habits as well. The goal is to fix the car and then treat it right so it lasts, as it works for me really well. Thanks for the honest comments. And if I happen to be the brunt of a humorous comment or two, hopefully some can get a smile out of it or better yet not do what I did. Thanks guys

 

[SHOdded]

Best of luck with the SHO Revival Project. Fingers crossed, the damage is limited to the turbos alone and did not get into the coolant/oil piping/converters.

 

[JAMES'12SHO]

ah, first mention of grinding. yeah, that would be a problem. most likely bad bearings and destroyed compressor wheels. Does the oil or intercooler have any debris? If not, it was a lucky escape. I would make that determination first.

Just got the car back from the shop tonight. I supplied the turbos and fittings and such and they charged $1500 in labor. Not terribly impressed with them as I drove the car in to them with no codes or shifting issues. I get it back with 3 codes (O2 sensor 1 and 2 and misfire cylinder 3) and the thing doesn’t idle well, won’t get past 5,000 rpm in second and the boost is hitting 18.5psi (way to high I feel) and fluctuates badly (+-4 psi)under load. I am taking to another shop in the morning as the shop I used stated that since I supplied parts (even though they are factory parts) they aren’t standing behind any of the work. I did in fact break the shaft on the back turbo. Both haves are still in the housing. The exhaust side is kind of embedded into the housing and seized but the intake side still spins freely. The front one looks pretty good still. Quite a bit of shaft play but no compressor wheel damage. I am hoping that the misfire on cylinder 3 isn’t the damaged rings like you had mentioned but obviously the shop I used is worthless. Fingers crossed that I don’t have to start looking for a motor tomorrow.

 

[SHOdded]

Very often, shops will not put hoses back on tight or forget to connect them altogether. So, begin by checking hoses - see if any may be cracked or loose. Check the connections to the wastegate control atop the manifold (has 3 unclamped hoses coming off of it). Pull out and inspect the BOVs for wear on the seals, especially the orange seal.