Shifting issues

[jayro]

So I am having some shifting issues with my 94 mtx. The symptoms are as follows. With the car moving it shifts fine for the most part (a little notchy sometimes). If I push the clutch in prior to coming to a stop it will go into gear just fine. If I am at idle and I release the clutch and then press it again it does not want to go into 1st or 2nd gear. It will usually go into 3rd or higher. Once I shift it into 3rd (or any gear for that matter) it will then go into 1st or 2nd just fine. Here is the info on the car and what I have done so far:
1. New clutch cable with a new grommet in the top of the trans
2. New shifter bushings. The one that holds the stabilizer rod
3. The clutch is a new SB stage 3 installed this past winter.
4. Trans had blocking rings and syncros replaced about 7 to 10k ago with known good ones from Bizzy.
5. Tried switching fluids from Valvoline max life to mobil 1 with no luck.
6. Flywheel I'd a new lightened steel one from sho source.

I am planning on rebuilding the shifter and clevise to eliminate that from the equation, however there is not a lot of play, so I don't think it will change anything.

I am leaning toward it being a clutch issue since this started a few 100 miles after the new clutch and went from happening not at all to just about every stop in the matter of a few 100 miles. I replaced the sleeve that the tob rides on when doing the clutch job. I used sleeve retainer, but maybe it came loose. Could this cause the clutch to not totally disengage? Im hoping some of you mtx gurus can help me out. Thank

 

[shotime1994]

I had the same exact problem with my sb stage three. The pp went bad after about 1k miles. I now have a centerforce and love it.

 

[rubydist]

so when you are at the light and let out the clutch and the depress clutch and try to shift to 1st, what happens? grinding? or just doesn't go in?

my 92 has cluster gears with a lot of drag on the mainshaft, so when I push in the clutch, I have to shift right now! or else it just doesn't want to go in. it sounds like that may be your issue.

if grinding, then you either have a synchro issue with 1st and 2nd, or else the clutch doesn't want to disengage.

 

[jayro]

so when you are at the light and let out the clutch and the depress clutch and try to shift to 1st, what happens? grinding? or just doesn't go in?

my 92 has cluster gears with a lot of drag on the mainshaft, so when I push in the clutch, I have to shift right now! or else it just doesn't want to go in. it sounds like that may be your issue.

if grinding, then you either have a synchro issue with 1st and 2nd, or else the clutch doesn't want to disengage.

No grinding or anything, it just won't go in. Like the gear isn't there. I'll try shifting like you said. So basically put it in gear right when I push the clutch in. The shifting has started feeling a little more notchy. I thought I read somewhere about thicknesses of different trans fluids and how they should effect shifting. Can't remember if it says to go thinned or thicker to cure the notchy feeling.

Also, would the shifting issue you are talking about just all of a sudden happen. It has shifted fine up to this point, then over the course of a couple hundred miles it changed. The only thing on the car that was changed was the lightened steel flywheel and the clutch.

 

[jayro]

I had the same exact problem with my sb stage three. The pp went bad after about 1k miles. I now have a centerforce and love it.

Uhggg! Thats not good. And it says that they don't honor there warranty unless it was installed by an ase mechanic. I just put the car back together and really don't want to take it apart again.

 

[shotime1994]

Uhggg! Thats not good. And it says that they don't honor there warranty unless it was installed by an ase mechanic. I just put the car back together and really don't want to take it apart again.

I had no problem getting mine warranting mine threw them. If you bring the rpms up does it go into gear any easier?

 

[jayro]

I had no problem getting mine warranting mine threw them. If you bring the rpms up does it go into gear any easier?

I went for a drive to double check this. Yes. If I rev it to about 3k it will slide into gear. Does this point to a pressure plate issue?

 

[AREA 91]

Does the car shift fine through the gears with the engine off?

Per your fluid question: Grinding, use thicker fluid Notchy, use thinner fluid

 

[shotime1994]

I went for a drive to double check this. Yes. If I rev it to about 3k it will slide into gear. Does this point to a pressure plate issue?

Yes your pp is shot. That is the exact problem I had.

 

[jayro]

Does the car shift fine through the gears with the engine off?

Per your fluid question: Grinding, use thicker fluid Notchy, use thinner fluid

Yes it shifts fine with the engine off. Do you have a recommendation on a thinner fluid to use? I am currently using Maxlife. Is mobil 1 thinner?

 

[jayro]

Yes your pp is shot. That is the exact problem I had.

Great. Guess I'll be contacting South bend clutch. Did they just replace it under warranty? You had mentioned you were using a different one.

If this is an issue with this clutch I'm not sure if I want to replace it with the same thing. Prior to this all I had heard were good things about Southbend clutches.

 

[shotime1994]

If you can get the car in gear with the car off the trans is fine. Your pp is bad

 

[shotime1994]

I am now using a centerforce. I sold the clutch to Fonz and it failed on him not to long after the install on his car.

 

[jayro]

I am now using a centerforce. I sold the clutch to Fonz and it failed on him not to long after the install on his car.

Well that's no good at all. Wish I had picked a different clutch.

 

[rubydist]

No grinding or anything, it just won't go in. Like the gear isn't there. I'll try shifting like you said. So basically put it in gear right when I push the clutch in. The shifting has started feeling a little more notchy. I thought I read somewhere about thicknesses of different trans fluids and how they should effect shifting. Can't remember if it says to go thinned or thicker to cure the notchy feeling.

Also, would the shifting issue you are talking about just all of a sudden happen. It has shifted fine up to this point, then over the course of a couple hundred miles it changed. The only thing on the car that was changed was the lightened steel flywheel and the clutch.

these symptoms do not point to a bad clutch in my experience.

what appears to be happening is that the input shaft stops very quickly when you release the clutch - this is due to the wear of the gear clusters on the mainshaft causing more friction than they should, creating excess drag. hence the recommendation of thinner oil, synthetic is better.

sometimes, adding friction modifier will make the oil more 'slippery' but this can also cause the blocking rings to not function very well, so use with caution and be aware of the risk.

if you don't already have Mobil1 atf in there, try that. try shifting like I suggested in my earlier post and see if that helps.

 

[jayro]

if you don't already have Mobil1 atf in there, try that. try shifting like I suggested in my earlier post and see if that helps.

I had tried switching to mobil 1 but didn't see much difference. I admit I didn't give it a lot of miles before I switched back. How quickly should I see a difference?

After reading your post I went for a drive to see if the shifting technique would work. It did not seem to help. I depressed the clutch and tried to quickly put it in gear with no luck.

Would what you are saying happen all of a sudden, or would it be a slow progression? My car went from shifting great to this in a matter of 3 to 4 hundred mile with the only change being the clutch and flywheel.

 

[rubydist]

it could happen quickly if the main shaft got scored up.

I want to make sure I have this right - so if you are at stopped at a light w/ clutch out and trans in neutral, and you depress the clutch, you can engage 3 or 4, but not 1 or 2 - is that what you are experiencing?

 

[rubydist]

it could happen quickly if the main shaft got scored up.

I want to make sure I have this right - so if you are at stopped at a light w/ clutch out and trans in neutral, and you depress the clutch, you can engage 3 or 4, but not 1 or 2 - is that what you are experiencing?

 

[jayro]

it could happen quickly if the main shaft got scored up.

I want to make sure I have this right - so if you are at stopped at a light w/ clutch out and trans in neutral, and you depress the clutch, you can engage 3 or 4, but not 1 or 2 - is that what you are experiencing?

Yes, it will usually go into any gear higher then 2nd. Sometimes I have to give the shifter a little wiggle in neutral first. After it goes into any gear (3rd through 5th) then it will go in and out of first just fine. If I let the clutch out an press it again then I have to repeat the procedure. Sometimes it will go into 2nd, but not usually. Like stated if I blip the throttle up to about 3k it will slip into 1st with no problem. My first though when this started happening was that it felt like the clutch wasn't disengaging all the was. I replaced the cable and adjusted it with no luck. I did the peddle lift method and by hand. This made no difference.

 

[shotime1994]

Yes, it will usually go into any gear higher then 2nd. Sometimes I have to give the shifter a little wiggle in neutral first. After it goes into any gear (3rd through 5th) then it will go in and out of first just fine. If I let the clutch out an press it again then I have to repeat the procedure. Sometimes it will go into 2nd, but not usually. Like stated if I blip the throttle up to about 3k it will slip into 1st with no problem. My first though when this started happening was that it felt like the clutch wasn't disengaging all the was. I replaced the cable and adjusted it with no luck. I did the peddle lift method and by hand. This made no difference.

Everything you are trying right now I did when I started having those symptoms. If I can find pics of the pp after I removed it I will post pics.