The car is original and has been well cared for 95k miles. I'm sure Trans and Clutch are original, but I've been able to adjust pedal and don't get grinding when put into gear. I'm sure syncro's are worn so I have a little extra trouble going to first and reverse but other posts have given me tricks to make easier shifts. I've tried my third type of ATX fluid they may each feel a little different but none helps. SHifting is always like Saliva's song- click click Boom. Going in to gear means shove, click wiggle, click test by letting clutch out click again shove. then it's time for the next gear! Seems to be worse when car is heated up but always bad. With out any Eureka moment I'm going to take it to someone- any one recommended that's good with SHO'S in Northern Indiana? We do have South Bend Clutch here but I don't think they do the mechanical work. I'm assuming its clutch or trans related, guess I'm going to have to do both, but I want to be sure it corrects the problem.
sh***y shifting 93 MTX ...Still
- Thread starter reedssho
- Start date
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while they never did shift especially well, it should shift better than your description.
first question - does the clutch fully disengage? one of the common failure modes of the clutch is release fingers worn away, which results in the clutch not disengaging. your clutch has enough miles that this is very possible. the only cure for this is to replace the clutch.
second question - when in gear, does the shifter lever wiggle around? if the shifter bushings are worn, you will see excessive wiggle in the shifter when in gear. this will make shifting very challenging, as the gates are not real clearly defined and if there is play, you won't know if you are trying to go into gear or just pushing against the gate.
of course, its possible that you have both issues.
first question - does the clutch fully disengage? one of the common failure modes of the clutch is release fingers worn away, which results in the clutch not disengaging. your clutch has enough miles that this is very possible. the only cure for this is to replace the clutch.
second question - when in gear, does the shifter lever wiggle around? if the shifter bushings are worn, you will see excessive wiggle in the shifter when in gear. this will make shifting very challenging, as the gates are not real clearly defined and if there is play, you won't know if you are trying to go into gear or just pushing against the gate.
of course, its possible that you have both issues.
It has a little play when in gear. I believe there is a worn shifter 'fix' which i think addresses worn bushings and play. I may try it to see if it helps. I'm on the list for a short shift kit thats in production under group buys. I will probably do the clutch then. One Nubie question. are the Syncro's that get worn part of a complete transmission rebuild or can they be done separately. Also I assume ther would be a cost savings doing the transmission with the clutch. Last, Anyone know anyone trustworthy in South Bend/ northern Indiana area?
Also, just to clarify fully 'Disengage' is when the clutch pedal is released and car is in gear? Or the other way around. I have noticed especially when Hot, that even with the clutch peday fully depressed I can still feel the engine pulling the car- Idles rough like there is a drag that goes away when I take car out of gear.
93rev2sev
SHO Member
Sure sounds like you need a clutch.
Synchros should not wear before the blocking rings.
Common misconception is that the synchronizer ... synchronizes... It's the blocking ring's job to get the shafts in the trans spinning at about the same speed. The synchronizers THEN match them perfectly and engage the gear.
the grinding you are hearing is due to the blocking rings not doing their jobs.
Synchros should not wear before the blocking rings.
Common misconception is that the synchronizer ... synchronizes... It's the blocking ring's job to get the shafts in the trans spinning at about the same speed. The synchronizers THEN match them perfectly and engage the gear.
the grinding you are hearing is due to the blocking rings not doing their jobs.
The only way you're going to wear the synchronizers is by use of a worn clutch or blocking ring. If you have an old clutch, it's most likely your problem of shifting problems. To continue driving in this condition, you will wear down the blocking rings [especially the fiber lined rings that came in 91-95 SHO's] and damage the synchronizer teeth and gear teeth. Once you wear these, your shifting will never be smooth again. You can buy a new clutch and blocking rings, but the damage done to the teeth gears on the gears and synchronizers will always cause a notchy feeling. You will not be able to purchase these brand new, and if you do happen to find someone selling these, look to spend more than expected. If you're interested in a synchronizer kit with blocking rings, you can look in my classified ad. I don't think anyone will be buying these, nor will I drop the price.
The blocking rings act as brake pads, slowing the gear down [stops the input shaft from moving, which is connected to the clutch disc] to mesh the synchronizer teeth with the actual gear teeth. With a bad clutch that does not disengage the disc, it will prevent the input shaft from being able to stop spinning, not allowing the blocking ring to stop the internal gears. This causes wear and will ruin your blocking rings very quickly.
Thanks for the help. Think I better park it and start saving pennies. I especially appreciate the info on Bushings n syncros. Will I have to wait until the clutch is done to see if the syncros are worn? Any other transmission work I should consider at the same time I do the clutch? I want to take the time to be sure things are done right while it's apart, and this is work I probably won't be able to do myself. My end goal is a very fast daily driver, And though I will probably be restricted to bolt ons initially, I've seen a couple performance engines come across the classifieds, so if the price is right,...??? I will probably go to south bend clutch for the clutch as I'm in south bend. I'm willing to drive a couple hours to a competent, fairly priced mechanic. Any suggestions or should I just find a performance shop around here?
Again, I REALLY appreciate the advice!
Again, I REALLY appreciate the advice!
As long as you haven't been grinding the gears a lot, you should be fine with a clutch replacement and fluid replacement if you have never had shifting problems before that. The precaution you have taken to keep grinding down helps, but it will be advancing wear in the blocking rings associated with the gear you are using. It will not have much of an effect if it hasn't been that long, that's the key. The main damage is done when one tries to ride the clutch out every mile until it craps out completely, it's like running an engine on 1 quart of oil for 5k+ miles, the wear is increased at a rapid rate.
I suggest visiting shonutperformance.com and buy his clutch job video. It is very informative, and you'll learn a lot even if you have somebody else do the work. The video also comes with a detailed write-up of how to do the job correctly that would be very useful if you hire the work out. The repair manuals just don't cover all the little details. The video also includes a section on how to rebuild the MTX. I recommend spending the extra money for shonutperformance's ceramic throw-out bearing (TOB). The TOB is the weak link in the SHO clutch system, and the shonut performance one will outlast the others.
You asked about other things to do in parallel with the clutch job. The video covers some of the essentials. I recommend checking the motor mounts. The front one is almost always bad or weak. Several sellers on here offer reinforced motor mounts.
You'll have the subframe out while doing the clutch job. So it's a fantastic time to upgrade the components on it. Replace the subframe bushings with Gen 3 or aluminum, if that has not already been done. Replace the strut tension rod bushings with the Energy Suspension urethane kit. While doing that, see if the tension rod cups have been welded. There is a Service Bulletin on that. If not, it is so easy to carry the subframe to a muffler shop and have it welded when the subframe is out of the car! Replace the sway bar bushings with Energy Suspension. Mine took PN 9.5160G , fit perfectly except you need to change the grease fittings from straight to 90 degree angle, easily done. Check your sway bar diameter to make sure it is 15/16" like mine, or you may need a different PN kit. It's a really good time to clean and paint the subframe.
It's also a good time to change out the coolant hoses that are located immediately above the clutch. These are normally buried, but easy to access with the MTX out.
Before taking the car apart for the clutch, check for play in the inner tie rod ends and smell the PS fluid to see if it smells burned. If either is found, it's a great time to change out the steering rack or just the inner rod ends.
Last thing I can think of is it's a convenient time to change the stock Y pipe to a performance Y pipe, but it can be done later too without much problem.
May of these are things I wish I had done during my last clutch job when they would have been so much easier!
You asked about other things to do in parallel with the clutch job. The video covers some of the essentials. I recommend checking the motor mounts. The front one is almost always bad or weak. Several sellers on here offer reinforced motor mounts.
You'll have the subframe out while doing the clutch job. So it's a fantastic time to upgrade the components on it. Replace the subframe bushings with Gen 3 or aluminum, if that has not already been done. Replace the strut tension rod bushings with the Energy Suspension urethane kit. While doing that, see if the tension rod cups have been welded. There is a Service Bulletin on that. If not, it is so easy to carry the subframe to a muffler shop and have it welded when the subframe is out of the car! Replace the sway bar bushings with Energy Suspension. Mine took PN 9.5160G , fit perfectly except you need to change the grease fittings from straight to 90 degree angle, easily done. Check your sway bar diameter to make sure it is 15/16" like mine, or you may need a different PN kit. It's a really good time to clean and paint the subframe.
It's also a good time to change out the coolant hoses that are located immediately above the clutch. These are normally buried, but easy to access with the MTX out.
Before taking the car apart for the clutch, check for play in the inner tie rod ends and smell the PS fluid to see if it smells burned. If either is found, it's a great time to change out the steering rack or just the inner rod ends.
Last thing I can think of is it's a convenient time to change the stock Y pipe to a performance Y pipe, but it can be done later too without much problem.
May of these are things I wish I had done during my last clutch job when they would have been so much easier!
Have the differential reinforced. If you can't pull it apart and have to have a shop do the work, print out this picture and have this done to all four pinion shafts.
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