Question for MTX experts on hard shifting

[JustinSane]

Hi guys, I just got bandito on the road a few hours ago afer doing a 3.2 swap and clutch masters stage 3 with ceramic TOB and teflon coated bushings, im noticing the 1 - 2 shift at high RPM is more of a effort then it used to be, Im using amsoil ATF in the tranny, we replaced the quill ( spelling? ) sleeve as well, is this normal for a fresh set up and it gets easier over time? if not what are some steps i can do to isolate the issue? and are there any tips or tricks i can do to try and make it easier?. much thanks in advance.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

I know it takes a hundred miles or so for the fluid to work into the trans so maybe give it some time and see if it gets better?

 

[Bizzy]

I'd change the fluid out also. Mobil 1 is noted as one of the best fluids to use with the fiber lined blocking rings. It works quite well with the all brass rings as well.

Did you do anything with the trans other than put new fluid in it?

Mind your break in period for that new clutch. It's really important that you break it in right no matter how tempting it is to rev the sucker out.

 

[JustinSane]

Hi guys, yes bizzy we also replaced all the seals in the tranny and roll pins in the dif and then had the dif pins tig welded. other then that nothing was changed. I wont beat on it to much till i have the clutch broke in, i just wanted to rev it high a few times to make sure it all felt right, thats how i noticed the harder 1-2 shift. you think amsoil isnt the right stuff for the MTX?

 

[shopartsnw]

X10 on the clutch break in period. Resist the urge for power for 300 miles of city driving (highway does not count unless you take every off ramp )

As for fluid issues, I thik transmissions can develop personality based on age and internals. What works in one transmission does not work in another.

Personally I start with Valvoline Dextron ATF for a starting point. If it is a track car, you can start with a synthetic like Redline D4. I have found there is a bit of a range in thickness from tin to thick as:

Thinnest
Mobil 1
Redline D4
Valvoline Dextron ATF
GM Synchromesh
Redline MTL
Thickest

If the car is notchy in shifting, try a thicker fluid.

If the car is hard to get into gear, try a thinner fluid.

As the transmission wears, you usually need a thicker fluid in my experience. Our track car used to love D4, but then if got really knotchy. We tried Mobil 1 and it got worse, but when we went to Synchromesh, the car shifted like new.

In your case, if it does not want to go into gear, try a thinner fluid like Bizzy's suggestion of Mobil 1.

Wow, that was a long answer to a question that was already answered.

Mike

 

[SHOracer14]

I have used mobil 1 in most of my past trannies.... I did try a trick an old school mechanic mentioned on my old 91' that worked quite well. I mixed standard Valvoline Mercon III ATF with 1/4 qt. of standard 80w 90 gear ****. It worked wonders on that worn hard shifting trans.

 

[JustinSane]

Im a bit confused on the dif between notchy and hard to go in gear, it seems they both are the same in a way, mine has a resistance going to 2 from first at high RPM then kinda once past that resistance goes into gear easy, is this more notchy of the 2 definitions? Im sure karson told me he ran redline in it, so it probably had the thicker redline and thats why it was easier to shift, the amsoil is probably thin like the mobile 1 correct?

 

[Bizzy]

I believe that Amsoil would be thinner like Mobil 1, but I've never used Amsoil so I can't speak with any certainty there.

How many miles do you have on this trans? Remember that it will take about 50 or so miles for the fluid to work its way through the trans kind of like what 1993MTXSHO said.

You might want to try synchromesh. That stuff is like honey and many do speak highly of it. Personally, I'd give your trans a few more miles of easy driving to break in the clutch properly before swapping the fluid for something else.

The only other area of concern I have is your diff. How, or more to the point, where on the diff did you have it welded? Outside, inside? This would probably not be of concern with shifting, but there could be other problems depending on where you had it welded.

 

[shomesomesho]

Bizzy, what kinds of problems would come up depending on where you weld the diff?

 

[AREA 91]

I wouldn't give out bad advice. I've learned some things the easy way, and the HARD way. I prefer the easy way, as it's MUCH less expensive. I have a few MTX4 tranny's, but I don't go out and do 1 wheel peels for hundreds of feet(anymore). Every tranny is different on what fluid it likes. Some thicker, some thinner. The temperature/climate where the SHO is driven all make a difference in the fluid. This is just my opnion, as I have spent over a $100 in different fluids in the same tranny to find out what it likes.

 

[shoclown]

be carefull mixing gear oil with atf, Some 80-90w has sulfer in it left from refinning..the sulfer will eat away at your syncros there was a article in gears magazine about 1 year ago. it stated that with manual trans oil older vehicle back to the 60s used brass syncro some recieved coatings etc. some of the fluids on the market (cheap ones) dont refine the oil that great and it leaves a high sulfer contint in it (penzoil has a lot of sulfer more in cheaper oils) the sulfer aND heat act like acid eating away at the blocking rings in the syncro

 

[Bizzy]

Bizzy, what kinds of problems would come up depending on where you weld the diff?

Premature differential bearing failure.

 

[AREA 91]

Premature differential bearing failure.

Hey Bizzy, I'm disappointed that we didn't get to meet at the convention. We kept missing each other by a few minutes here and there. There's alway's next year sweetie.

 

[JustinSane]

the dif was welded the "normal way" L from the hard bolts to the pins. the ytranny has over 200 mile son it since yesterday and no change. cept it seemed easier this morning when it was cold, then as it warmed up it got worse.

 

[Bizzy]

the dif was welded the "normal way" L from the hard bolts to the pins. the ytranny has over 200 mile son it since yesterday and no change. cept it seemed easier this morning when it was cold, then as it warmed up it got worse.

There's no "normal" way for them to be welded the way you describe. The extra weight added is going to equate to wobble. Unless whoever did it has an exact science to add precisely the exact same amount of material to each surface, that's what's going to happen. It may not cause bearing damage in 200 miles or even 1000 miles, but rest assured that it will in time. Exactly how long, I dunno.

If the shifting gets worse as the trans warms up I'm inclined to lean toward the fluid causing the issues.

Hey Bizzy, I'm disappointed that we didn't get to meet at the convention. We kept missing each other by a few minutes here and there. There's alway's next year sweetie.

Yeah, I know. I was disappointed too but I will be flying out for next year's convention and there's always time between now and then too.

 

[shopartsnw]

Sounds like you might need thicker fluid, as it gets worse when it gets warmed up.

Try the GM Synchromesh or plain old Valvoline Dextron ATF (if you want to save a little money).

Let us know how this all works out.

Mike

 

[Storm-Chaser]

I "heard" a rumor that there were these 'two guys' that kept her preoccupied most of convention week - some guy from California, and another from the Gulf coast . . . .


Hey Bizzy - I guess I didn't tell enough stories about some of the other 'pilots' (term used loosely) I've known that have been hired by the airlines, to scare you out of flying . . . .

(note to self..., next call her about the guy hired by....)

There's no "normal" way for them to be welded the way you describe. The extra weight added is going to equate to wobble. Unless whoever did it has an exact science to add precisely the exact same amount of material to each surface, that's what's going to happen. It may not cause bearing damage in 200 miles or even 1000 miles, but rest assured that it will in time. Exactly how long, I dunno.

If the shifting gets worse as the trans warms up I'm inclined to lean toward the fluid causing the issues.



Yeah, I know. I was disappointed too but I will be flying out for next year's convention and there's always time between now and then too.

Hey Bizzy, I'm disappointed that we didn't get to meet at the convention. We kept missing each other by a few minutes here and there. There's alway's next year sweetie.

Yeah, I know. I was disappointed too but I will be flying out for next year's convention and there's always time between now and then too.

 

[JustinSane]

I changed the fluid to redline MTL and the notchy feel cut in half, i would still like it to be a little less so i may try GM syncro mesh , if thats thicker then MTL? the diffs metal braces was cut by me and it was just little pieces of angle steel, I had a tig welder weld them to keep the pins from being able to turn and snap the roll pins, the weight added is very minimal, Im sure the bearings will be fine for many years to come

 

[Bizzy]

I hope you're right. Doesn't take much to put it out of balance.

Picture an old school top. Tear off 3 pieces of electrical tape as close to the same size as you can eyeball them. Tape them on 3 sides of the top formed in an L shape so they're sticking out from the sides. Not much weight right? But spin it up and what happens? How long does it take for it to wobble off balance and fall? That's the concept I'm trying to explain.

Keith, I wish we would have had more time, but since you were falling asleep standing up and all..... You still coming up in a couple of weeks?

 

[JustinSane]

any one know if syncro mesh is better then redline mtl for notchy shifting? some say its thicker then redline mtl and yet on the above list its shown as right above mtl in thickness. gonna have 100 bucks in dumped fluid till i find the one i like i think