Oil in my Plug wells

[BlackOnBlackATX]

well, theres really no downside due to the way our system is. youre going to gain horsepower and keep your intake clean. the system is there to cut emissions if i am right...any takers on that one? im 95% sure thats why its there. so your emissions will go up a bit, but your intake should be a tad cooler and ALOT cleaner. but you do have to have some sort of catch can, and make sure you dispose of what collects in it legally. put it in some oil containers and drop it off with your used oils if you change your own oil.

<small>[ January 26, 2003, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: BlackOnBlackATX ]</small>

 

[Jr's Sho]

No, I'm talking about keeping the fresh air line plugged for good. I'm looking into buying a catch can but I'm having a hard time finding a store that sells one, does anyone here know where to go? But back to the question at hand, is there a negative effect for keeping the fresh air line plugged as long as you own your car? Another question, what does the vacuum hose to the upper left of the fresh air hose on the TB do? Where does the other end go?

<small>[ January 26, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Jr's Sho ]</small>

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

well the catch can is usually sold at speed shops and i was told autozone and stores like it have them. im just gonna order it through jegs or something. i dont think it matter too much about plugging the fresh air line, but i think the idea of plugging it is to keep a higher pressure inside the valve covers which maintains the pressure on the gaskets making a better seal. anybody? anybody? im pretty sure thats it. sorry for not reading it right the first time. i dont think i follow which hose youre talking about, but im sure you know which ones are the pcv lines (just the two of em) two are coolant send and returns, and one is an IAC line. check out the last post on this from the link i posted above and all your questions should be answered there. there were some good links to diagrams and such if i remember, if not im sure a quick search will bring it up. if im feeling not so lazy ill look it up in a bit. sorry dude.

<small>[ January 26, 2003, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: BlackOnBlackATX ]</small>

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Alright... I need to re-read this entire thread just so I know WTF is going on...

But maybe this can help shed a bit of light on it for others...

 

[SHOZ123]

is there a negative effect for keeping the fresh air line plugged as long as you own your car?

I can't think of any. Maybe if you change your oil at +5000 miles there might be some build up of contaminates.

what does the vacuum hose to the upper left of the fresh air hose on the TB do?

That goes to the fuel vapor purge canister.

It is the hose labeled Ventilation Hose 2 that is capped.
**********************

There will be blow by gasses. And with a slight vacuum on the crankcase these gasses will be drawn out.

If you install a catch can, doing this capping mod will reduce what you have to drain out of the can by at least 50%. Or so I have found on my '97. But the biggest benefit is reduced oil leakage.

I was going to scrap the motor in my '93 and swap in a new one due to the fact I was using a quart of oil every 500-600 miles. Since I put in new rod bearings and seeing how gunked up the bottom of the motor was I decided to try the sealed crankcase mod that I have been using on my '97 and use some Auto-RX oil system cleaner.

I am truly amazed at this product and encourage anyone who has dark oil stains inside the motor or who is leaking oil out the seals or burning it because of leaky valve stem seals to try this product.

The car runs quieter, uses half the oil (1 qrt per 1200 miles) and has more power (or so it seams). I will be using another treatment in a 1000 miles and hopefully will improve the oil usage even more.

 

[sdpatt]

The premise of plugging the PCV line to stop oil inleakage to the plug wells is not valid. If you haven't also plugged the large PCV line from the center of the valley to the throttle body, the path from the crankcase to the inlet air path is still intact.

Also, since the air flow path just upstream of the throttle plate is slightly below atmospheric pressure (but not full manifold vacuum), leaving these hoses intact would actually provide not only an escape path for the exhaust blow-by gasses, by introduce a lower pressure in the crankcase.

If you cap both of the PCV lines, you have removed any path for removing the blow-by gasses and will instead, allow the pressure in the crankcase to increase, thereby increasing the rate of any oil leakage from the crankcase through the crankshaft seals, camshaft seals or into the spark plug wells. Ask the forced induction SHO owners about blowing out their crankshaft seals due to the increased pressure in the crankcase.

You will also be allowing the exhaust blow-by gasses to be vented in some manner to the atmosphere - effectively removing the emission control feature of the PCV lines. A catch can lets this path be a reality. This venting to atmosphere won't affect the tailpipe emissions, but if found by an inspector, will probably fail the car for emissions testing.

Bottom line on this alteration: it will not reduce the rate of oil leakage and will increase the emissions output of your engine.

The only way to repair the oil inleakage to the plug wells is to replace the dried out plug well seals. The Fel-Pro VS50378R set that includes the six spark plug well seals and the two valve cover seals is $71.99 from AutoZone.com (look up for a 1991 SHO).

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

sdpatt:

If you cap both of the PCV lines, you have removed any path for removing the blow-by gasses and will instead, allow the pressure in the crankcase to increase, thereby increasing the rate of any oil leakage from the crankcase through the crankshaft seals, camshaft seals or into the spark plug wells. Ask the forced induction SHO owners about blowing out their crankshaft seals due to the increased pressure in the crankcase.

THANK YOU... wink

Thats what I thought

but all this crazy talk had me doubting it all squint

 

[shojuan]

SHOZ123:

I was going to scrap the motor in my '93 and swap in a new one due to the fact I was using a quart of oil every 500-600 miles. Since I put in new rod bearings and seeing how gunked up the bottom of the motor was I decided to try the sealed crankcase mod that I have been using on my '97 and use some Auto-RX oil system cleaner.

I am truly amazed at this product and encourage anyone who has dark oil stains inside the motor or who is leaking oil out the seals or burning it because of leaky valve stem seals to try this product.

The car runs quieter, uses half the oil (1 qrt per 1200 miles) and has more power (or so it seams). I will be using another treatment in a 1000 miles and hopefully will improve the oil usage even more.

I'll have to give the Auto-RX a try. That stuff is expensive but so is going through a quart of redline 10W/30 every 1000 miles!

 

[Jr's Sho]

I don't think all this was to keep oil out of the plug wells but to keep excess oil from entering the intake and other places. So Scott, you're saying that the only way to keep the gunk from entering your motor is to either install a can in the larger PCV hose or just to leave it off?

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

sdpatt, if i remember correctly i read in another thread the forced induction sho's go from positive to negative ventilation in the crank which is why they blow plug seals. anyone? anyone? i promise ill look for it in the morning. but im not promoting this to keep plug seals intact (in case anyone should be asking) i started the old thread just for the sake of keeping the intake clean. so i wash my hands of anything else. but i will try and look up where i read about the s/c sho's in the morning like i said. but even ted breaux endorses plugging the lines. are you disagreeing or are you only referring to oil leakage? im interested in every side of the story. later guys.

<small>[ January 27, 2003, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: BlackOnBlackATX ]</small>

 

[AutoSHO]

I am not quite sure if I understand your response scott. You are saying that by decreasing the amount of fresh air running through the crankcase, and holding it under a bit of vacuum increases emissions? How does it introduce more blowby into the system? I dont understand.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

AutoSHO:
I am not quite sure if I understand your response scott. You are saying that by decreasing the amount of fresh air running through the crankcase, and holding it under a bit of vacuum increases emissions? How does it introduce more blowby into the system? I dont understand.

Im not Scott but,...

By using a catch-can instead of the factory setup you increase emissions because the blowby gasses do not get recylced as well.

and,

If you use a catch can (or cap the line) you promote more blowby simply because the case cannot "breath" as well.

again for reference: the line in question is ventilation hose #2

 

[SHOZ123]

Scott....

There are two hoses for ythe PCV ventilation system correct? One Vent hose 2 provides fresh air. The other, vent hose, one provides the vacuum to pull blow by gasses fromt he crankcase. This vacuum is created by the small port in front of the throttle plate. Using the princlpal know as the venturi effect.

Look at the diagram. And then put a vacuum gauge on the valve cover line. Rev the motor up and tell me what you see.

A catch can if spliced into hose one will allow the fumes to condense in the can instead of being ingested by the motor. What you do with the condensate will determine the increased emmsions level or not.

If you plug both lines, then indeed you will have a pressure build up from the blow by gasses. This is not what I am advocating at all.

It is really a simple system and not hard to understand. Somehow people have the idea that the line going from the valve cover is the vent tube from the crankcase but as you can see by the drawing this is not the case. During WOT when the blow by gasses exceed the ability for the venturi effect created vacuum on vent hose one to maintain a vacuum there will be some backing up of gasses through the valve cover hose.

 

[SHOZ123]

Here is how the catch can should be plumbed.

 

[twr]

SHOZ123:
Here is how the catch can should be plumbed.

Ding, ding, ding - we have a winner!! If you want to install a catch can - that's where it goes. I have one to reduce the amount of oil I have going into the intake tract. I have a very over active PVC system (high vacuum) Actually pulls oil from the seperator.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

twrsho:

SHOZ123:
Here is how the catch can should be plumbed.

Ding, ding, ding - we have a winner!! If you want to install a catch can - that's where it goes. I have one to reduce the amount of oil I have going into the intake tract. I have a very over active PVC system (high vacuum) Actually pulls oil from the seperator.

Okay... can somebody take it another step further (pictures are key here wink ) and show where the PLUGS go that are shown in the photo on pg 1 of this thread?

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

i was going to post some pics on the pcv catch thread but it was way too cold here in NY (-2 in the daylight) to be fooling around with that but as soon as i get some i will still post for whoever wants to see. if anyone else has some though im still interested too beer

 

[twr]

You really do not want to plug the pvc system (as shown in the picture) Instead, you could restrict the fresh air supply by reducing the diameter of the hose, but please do not cap it off. It's there for a reason. The reduced diameter should have the same effect as capping it. Increased vacuum on the crankcase - which is a good thing, and a fresh air supply for the PVC system, also a good thing.

BTW - this will not help oil leaking into the plug wells. But may reduce oil consumption.

<small>[ January 28, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: twrsho ]</small>

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

twrsho, well what do you think about plugging the separator then? cuz all were talking about is emissions really arent we? and i by that i mean leaving the fresh air line on the throttle body and not even messing with it but collecting the crap that comes out in a can as mentioned. are you predicting some sort of harm or are you talking from an environmental standpoint?

 

[SHOZ123]

The PCV system on the V6 is so inefficient it cannot create much vacuum. What are your experienced drawbacks of capping the inlet to the PCV system?

There is still pressure being created in the crankcase by blow by. With a vacuum, this blow by is still being removed. When fresh air is drawn into the crankcase you also bring in water. This mixes with the oil to form an emulsified solution of greater volume than that created by just the blow by gasses. You also, with the introduction of water will produce some acids.

Quite frankly no one knows the negative if any effects of this mod. I cannot see any of great consequence other than a slightly faster build up of heavy water soluble contaminates. Which is removed when the oil is changed.

Innovation is great and leads to new mods. Pull your head out of the sand.