No Start - Coil?.... Lost...

[Talyn]

I'll do the quick then the long.

Quick:
Cranks, no start. Got fuel. Visibly see lifters moving though oil fill in valve cover.
Think its Coil pack.
I don't know jack diddly bout these things.
No way to pull codes.

Long:

Car's been accelerating strangely for the last while. I have not been driving it, my father has. I had moved to Tennessee working.
Anyways, Got home and drove it, still idles like crap like it always has, but now when you get on it before it warms up, it would stutter like it was flooding.

Drove fine otherwise.

Was downstate working other day and Father called me saying car had died. Luckily it was in the driveway.

Trying to figure out the acceleration stutter I checked over sensors and intake stuff and other things. Cleaned the MAF sensor, it had gunk on it. Uck.

I'd rather not wrench on this thing for something like a timing chain, but I do like the car. I just don't have the extra money to give it what it needs either. (struts, strut mounts and some other odds and ends)

So, I'm besides trying to fix it for now, I'm trying to decide if I should part it or sell it.
I'm the second owner on the car and have ALL the paperwork since it was bought.

Thoughts?
I don't wanna play the parts swap game, but You can smell it has fuel, it just wont start.
I don't have an amp meter either to test to anything that way. I'm not sure why I don't have one yet. haha.

 

[rubydist]

all you need to pull codes is a paper clip and the ability to count to 9. if you can't do that, we can't help you with your car.

 

[beaudeen]

I'll be the first to say...check the codes..!!!
Do a search on how to..

 

[Talyn]

Yeah, I figured you guys would say that.

I was hoping for speculation.

 

[luigisho]

You can get a cheap spark tester from the autoparts store to check for spark at the plugs. I would check the codes and see what comes up. Beats ******* in the wind trying to throw parts at it. It's probably something not too difficult once you find it. shophoenixproject.com

 

[Talyn]

Nah. I don't throw parts at stuff.

I'm looking for probable causes IE, speculation to see if its worth going though a lot of hassle or just parting it out.

I'll dick with codes on it later today. I just always fail horribly with the paper clip method.

To spoiled with scanner for diesel.

 

[shocar]

I have several SHO's .... one of them acted very strange before the CPS caused the car to stop running. The acceleration was not normal. If the water pump failed, and the CPS is wet, it will not start. Just to cross this off the list, get a flashlight and try to look at the base of the water pump. IF there is any wetness at all, that is your culprit. Most of the time the car will start after it sits awhile but I had a 94 that just fail once and that was all she wrote. Never hit after that until I replaced the cps and the waterpump.... IF you do have to do this, change the timing belt while your in there.

 

[kevinspann]

Oil in the plug wells can/will make it run like shit without really throwing a cel. I'll say it's a crank sensor or DIS, I would start by checking for spark, after checking the codes

 

[hawkeye18]

Coil packs don't go bad very often on these cars, but it has been known to happen.

If you are cheap (and it seems that you are), and you don't mind a little bit of personal danger (odds are pretty good you won't die), you can simply remove a spark plug, hook it up to its wire, and press the arm of it (gently) against a metal surface. This will provide a ground path and if the spark system is working, you'll see it spark.

You will want to wear non-conductive-soled shoes/boots and make sure to not touch anything metal yourself, though, because if you do, you'll be getting 50,000 volts through you. Mind, it's at such a low amperage it won't do any permanent damage (think stun gun), but BOY does it sting! Obviously you'll need a helper (who isn't inclined to practical jokes, and one that doesn't hold a grudge towards you) to operate the key.

Boy, diesels really are a lot simpler, aren't they?

 

[Talyn]

I have several SHO's .... one of them acted very strange before the CPS caused the car to stop running. The acceleration was not normal. If the water pump failed, and the CPS is wet, it will not start. Just to cross this off the list, get a flashlight and try to look at the base of the water pump. IF there is any wetness at all, that is your culprit. Most of the time the car will start after it sits awhile but I had a 94 that just fail once and that was all she wrote. Never hit after that until I replaced the cps and the waterpump.... IF you do have to do this, change the timing belt while your in there.

Oil in the plug wells can/will make it run like shit without really throwing a cel. I'll say it's a crank sensor or DIS, I would start by checking for spark, after checking the codes

Thanks guys, That's the kinda stuff I was looking for!

I know nothing about these cars quirks. So checking codes doesn't tell me stuff like using my eyes and a flashlight. =)


I can tell ya it looses coolant and oil, but I believe this is the head gasket issue some of these older ones can have?
I drip oil slowly on the floor, but not coolant.

I got to busy to check codes today.

 

[Talyn]

Coil packs don't go bad very often on these cars, but it has been known to happen.

If you are cheap (and it seems that you are), and you don't mind a little bit of personal danger (odds are pretty good you won't die), you can simply remove a spark plug, hook it up to its wire, and press the arm of it (gently) against a metal surface. This will provide a ground path and if the spark system is working, you'll see it spark.

You will want to wear non-conductive-soled shoes/boots and make sure to not touch anything metal yourself, though, because if you do, you'll be getting 50,000 volts through you. Mind, it's at such a low amperage it won't do any permanent damage (think stun gun), but BOY does it sting! Obviously you'll need a helper (who isn't inclined to practical jokes, and one that doesn't hold a grudge towards you) to operate the key.

Boy, diesels really are a lot simpler, aren't they?

That's the other good info I want to know.

As for your suggestion, nah, its not that scary.
Though I was trying to trace a problem on my 302 and pulled a plug wire and whammo, man that hurt.

Diesels are a lot simpler.
Makes me want one of those Jetta TDI's.

Not really the fact of me being cheap, just the fact of me having no money at the moment. 4.25 a gallon on the diesel, it's kinda hard to not be tight.

 

[hawkeye18]

Not having any money and owning a SHO are two very difficult circumstances to reconcile.

Honestly, 75% of the things that can go wrong that will cause a SHO not to start are the crank sensor and cam sensor. One (the cam sensor) is fairly cheap [~$30-40] and fairly easy to replace if you have small hands or a mechanically inclined child.

The other - the crank sensor - is pretty expensive [$80-100] and a massive pain in the dick to replace.

The problem is, usually with a cam sensor the car will eventually start, as it's basically just guessing which cylinder is at TDC and firing spark plugs randomly until it gets it right. If the crank sensor goes out, there is no spark whatsoever. The computer won't even try to fire, since it has no idea which cylinders are where, and if it fires it might blow a cylinder up.

The other 25% is divided up between oil in the spark plug wells (10% - it has to get pretty damned bad before it won't start, and that is really easy to troubleshoot), a bad DIS (10%), and a bad coil pack (5%).

If a car runs like el poopo, usually it's either bad plugs/wires (either they themselves are bad, or there is oil in the spark plug well) or the timing has skipped.

Actually, now that I think about it, if the timing belt has been slipping and skipping teeth, every tooth it skipped would make it run worse and worse until eventually it was so far out it just wouldn't start any more. You can check that by removing the top timing belt cover (which involves removing the intake crossover tube, the alternator, the top idler pulley and water pump pulley - and I think the P/S pulley but I can't remember) and rotating the crank bolt by hand (19mm socket) until the timing marks either line up or they don't.

 

[Talyn]

Thanks Hawkeye.

In all honesty on the starting issues. Whenever the car would stall, I would have to long crank to get it to start, then it would high idle.

It's had idle issues since I purchased it, never been able to track it down.
Didn't get a CEL till more recently though.

I dont' mind wrenching on stuff, but FFS its not fun to work on these things. Just replacing the vacuum hoses I did the other year were a friggen nightmare!

If I had the money, I would pull the motor and rebuild it for some more umpfh.
I'm sure its bout time for a new clutch too. Over 100k on the clutch.

Poor front suspension is gone.

For 200 dollars, Its hard to beat a car like this.
I have about 500 dollars into it for stuff like wind shield, brakes and IAC. Thats it.
Been driving it for ... 3 years now? 4?


If it helps, it's had a lopey idle since I got it. It will stall too. Rarely has it ever idled right.
It likes to overheat in towns as well during the summer, but I think thats cause the fan is not working worth a damn.

 

[kevinspann]

Crush it

 

[beaudeen]

Geeeeeze.....Pull the codes

Then Crush it...lol

 

[Talyn]

Crush it

Why would I do that?

 

[notbange]

In lieu of crushing, fire is also acceptable.

 

[kevinspann]

Why would I do that?

It sounds like that thing is going to keep eating your money, just to keep it going.

 

[Talyn]

It sounds like that thing is going to keep eating your money, just to keep it going.

I've got 600 into it over 3-4 years.......

I actually have not worked on it in over 2.

If its going to be a PITA to fix, yeah. I'ma scrap it/part it.
Depends on if anyone here needs parts though.

 

[Talyn]

In lieu of crushing, fire is also acceptable.

If its a Crank Position Sensor, the 7mm mag might be coming out if nobody wants the motor.

I figure a few more pounds of lead will increase the value at the scrap yard.