No heat! Overheating! Not T-Stat

[-DVP-]

Update
I have to sell the SHO and I need to fix this ASAP.

I have the top half of the front of the motor off as of now. I was doing the pump but it doesnt appear to be the source of the leak. Im not going to put a 160 pump on a car I am selling if that is not the issue.

ANYTHING it could be I will check, my luck is it will be the stupidest thing.

As of now:
-Replaced thermostat
-Pulled top timing cover
-Dry under the pump


List of thing I need to check

-freeze plugs (need help on that)
-hard lines (how many hard coolant lines are there on the rear pass side of the motor?)
-burp cooling system
-heater core flow (waste some coolant)
-radiator ( I drained it when I was about to do the water pump)
-scrap price

I just want this over with so I can sell it.


Here is my other post about doing the water pump that ended up like this on http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?p=1000719&posted=1#post1000719



Original post
----So i turned on the heat on the way to work an got nothing but cold air. Temp gauge was at the top part of the A In NORMAL until i got on the highway. Dropped to the L. stayed that way all the way here. Had to get some food and by the time i pulled off, about 5-7mins, it was on the N. Went down after I drove the 2 mins here but not much.

Here is the question. If there was no coolant then I wouldnt think it would drop so much on the highway. What else would cause both of these. Everything I can think of doesnt match with a different symptom.

Ideas? Going to check coolant before I leave. hope its simple and easy.

Seems like a dumb question but like I said i dont know what would cause both of those.

 

[Vnuk1]

Have you replaced the Thermostat? And depending what the outside temp is it "could" keep it self cool enough running on the highway.

 

[Jedi]

Sludge/rust, etc blocking the heater core, damaged heater core, etc. Low (very low) coolant would cause this to a degree as well. Mine for example will run hotter in the city than on the highway and if you have had the weather we have had out here in PA this could happen.

Hope this helps

 

[-DVP-]

Have you replaced the Thermostat? And depending what the outside temp is it could keep it self cool enough running on the highway.

We're talking about a huge increase in cooling on the highway. I just dont see it cooling that much even being in the mid high 20s but it would almost have to be.


T-stat makes perfect sense though. No fluid making it to heater core, heating up quickly at stops.

I feel real dumb, especially since I just did the one on the Cougar a few months ago.

 

[Vnuk1]

Well if you can laugh at yourself after that one it's no big deal.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Being low on coolant will cause this. Even during the summer the engine gets enough airflow to cool the engine to prevent overheating. However, when you come to a stop, the loss of airflow causes the coolant to begin to progressively overheat.

The on-again, off-again heat is a big clue that you're low on coolant. You probably noticed that you could get the heat to 'start' again, by either reving the engine or shortly after you began driving again, once you initially got some heat.

 

[93rev2sev]

as much as I hate to, I agree with storm. Top of the radiator when it's cold.

 

[-DVP-]

Being low on coolant will cause this. Even during the summer the engine gets enough airflow to cool the engine to prevent overheating. However, when you come to a stop, the loss of airflow causes the coolant to begin to progressively overheat.

The on-again, off-again heat is a big clue that you're low on coolant. You probably noticed that you could get the heat to 'start' again, by either reving the engine or shortly after you began driving again, once you initially got some heat.

Did the thermostat. No dice. Temp still climbs way too fast and NO heat. It wasn't on and off heat it was blazing hot Thursday to no heat at all Saturday.

It is in correct, topped off with coolant and still nothing. There was coolant in the overfill still too.

Where do I go from here?

 

[sho_ted]

head gasket?

 

[-DVP-]

head gasket?

I hope to God thats not it. I would have compression loss though and power loss too. Seems to have the same power.

 

[LJRuddy]

Just throwing out an idea that probably wont hold up...

Could it be possible that your blend door actuator as well as your temp sensor both went bad causing your erratic temp gauge and loss of heat? Does your fan turn on when you switch to A/C?

 

[-DVP-]

Just throwing out an idea that probably wont hold up...

Could it be possible that your blend door actuator as well as your temp sensor both went bad causing your erratic temp gauge and loss of heat? Does your fan turn on when you switch to A/C?

Its really not erratic. as it cools at high air flow speeds and heats at low speeds.

OK random ideas Ive been coming up with

Clogged radiator
water pump


Fluid is not getting to the heater core so something has to be blocking it is all I can think.

I leave to go back to school tomorrow. I really need to fix this today.

 

[St Louis SHO]

Cooling fan not working?

 

[-DVP-]

Cooling fan not working?

Ill check that.

If thats the case then it could be the blend door. or heater core. my luck....

Heater core is not leaking from what I can see.

Top hose is hard, hot on bottom of it.

 

[Jedi]

If you can pressure test the entire system...you can rent the tool at autozone if you have one near you. Might be a pressurized leak (IE-cracked hard line that the leak itself would not be obvious or visible with the engine off. Chased a leak down for a month on an old Laser i had ad that is what it was...the lines near the heater core had cracked and when the system was pressurized it would spray coolant all over the exhaust, so not only did I have a leak I had a leak that was evaporating as fast as it was getting out of the engine...just a thought and I hope our collective advice is helping you along.

 

[-DVP-]

No fan.

Just pulled codes Ill see what they tell me.

A lot of moisture coming from the exhaust. Its cold though so I hope thats all it is.

 

[-DVP-]

Believe these are KOER
114 (O,R) IAT sensor out of range - IAT
411(R) Idle speed system not controlling idle properly (generally idle too high) - ISC
These are my fault.
538 (R) System did not receive "goose" test
521 (R) Wheel not turned during test or PSP problem - PSP

these should be KOEO
114 (O,R) IAT sensor out of range - IAT
1
117(O,M) ECT sensor is/was low or grounded - ECT
542(O,M) Fuel pump open, bad ground or always on - - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits
557(O,M) Low speed pump relay primary circuit fault - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits

Heard it check fuel pump but no fan. then I checked to see if it was running and it wasnt. Hope that is the overheating problem. Now I wonder what is causing the no heat.

Off the wall idea here but what if the relay for the fan and blender door or something are the same and is causing this problem. Like I said off the wall.

 

[-DVP-]

Water pump.....

Just ordered it. Next weekend should be fun....

 

[SHO GoDz 89]

Make sure you burp your cooling system.

My radiator is filled to the top but I have the same exact symptoms. It has to do with the pressure built up when the engine is going. Try holding your revs at around 2500rpms when you are at "N" and see if the temp starts to decline.

My heater core doesn't work as well when the temps are so high, but once it drops (possibly due to the built up pressure which then allows the coolant to properly flow) I then suddenly have heat. My temps drop from N to L in about 4 seconds.
This all happened after I replaced my water pump and it is probably because I haven't burped my cooling system since then.


I doubt it would be your water pump, because it would just completely over heat, no matter if you were driving or not (ask me how I know).



Like I said, burp your cooling system, since you replaced your T-stat you need to do this anyways because the radiator fill is below the highest point of the
cooling system.


I've learned from experience to try and fix the simple problems first. At least for me, I seem to get problems that look like major mechanical issues...but it is a combination of other stupid problems. Example: I had water in my gas tank (1/8 of a tank in cold weather and water condensed and got into the gas) and I had 2 corroded plug wires....these issues made my overall issue act EXACTLY like a timing belt issue. After changing the timing belt 3 times and realizing this was no longer mechanical, I spent $15 on gas and water remover and cleaned the plug wires and she was running good as new in 10 minutes.

 

[-DVP-]

Make sure you burp your cooling system.

My radiator is filled to the top but I have the same exact symptoms. It has to do with the pressure built up when the engine is going. Try holding your revs at around 2500rpms when you are at "N" and see if the temp starts to decline.

My heater core doesn't work as well when the temps are so high, but once it drops (possibly due to the built up pressure which then allows the coolant to properly flow) I then suddenly have heat. My temps drop from N to L in about 4 seconds.
This all happened after I replaced my water pump and it is probably because I haven't burped my cooling system since then.


I doubt it would be your water pump, because it would just completely over heat, no matter if you were driving or not (ask me how I know).



Like I said, burp your cooling system, since you replaced your T-stat you need to do this anyways because the radiator fill is below the highest point of the
cooling system.


I've learned from experience to try and fix the simple problems first. At least for me, I seem to get problems that look like major mechanical issues...but it is a combination of other stupid problems. Example: I had water in my gas tank (1/8 of a tank in cold weather and water condensed and got into the gas) and I had 2 corroded plug wires....these issues made my overall issue act EXACTLY like a timing belt issue. After changing the timing belt 3 times and realizing this was no longer mechanical, I spent $15 on gas and water remover and cleaned the plug wires and she was running good as new in 10 minutes.

It is smoking on the pass side of motor also, plus the drips off the mufflers Its either this or the Heater core. Either way I already bought it, if I had to I could take it back but I figure its one less thing to do on my 60k checklist.