Need Timing belt help information

[tery]

Hi,
I am buying a 93 SHO that cranks like the timing belt is broken, or did a month ago. It is sitting w/dead battery. Is there a way to hand turn the engine or peek in somewhere and determine in fact if the timing belt is broken. I wondered if ya could remove the upper timing belt cover bolts, slide a screw driver in enough to pry a half inch open and look to see if the belt was there, or somewhere that if the engine is turned over by hand with the fan belt I should see something move. What else should I see moving, just need to move an inch to tell if its intact or not...In the old days, I might have looked at the rotor button or something...well I guess that's maybe a cam gear in other engines.... ANyway, experienced people, can you give me some ideas how to be sure it is the timing belt, if I can't crank the engine...

 

[rubydist]

pull back the top timing cover so you can see the belt. put a socket on the crank pulley and turn it. when crank is turned, the timing belt must move.

if the timing belt is broken, it will also be loose and you will see that when you pull back the top timing cover.

 

[tery]

THe seller said it cranks over but "way to easy", like he can hear that it's just turning the crank and not the cams...Sounds like he knows pretty well what he's listening to...I'll take a travel tool kit with me on Saturday

 

[jimtash]

You need to be careful and make sure the stud that holds the tensioner didn't break. I've said it before and I'll say it again, certain name brand timing belts are too short and place too much stress on the components. Plenty of post here complain of timing belt whine after replacement and it isn't because they were installed wrong but because the belts are at fault.

 

[rubydist]

yeah, I bought a SHO once with a broken cam (broke right behind the cam sprocket) which I believe was from a timing belt that was too tight.

 

[jimtash]

And it's not the installs that are causing it but certain brand name timing belts. I only recommend and use USA made Cloyes. Will never ever use a Dayco or any of their Italian made counterparts again.

 

[waffles]

Little tidbit: If you have a flashlight you can take the oil cap off and you might be able to see a cam lobe. You would then just have someone crank the car and watch for movement. If you see movement, the timing belt is on, if not, the timing belt is broken. If you have a mechanical inclination (or have aspirations of having one), changing the timing belt (might as well do a full 60k on it) is a great way to get to know your car and shouldn't take more than a weekend. Best of luck man.

 

[waffles]

Another tidbit. If this is the car you are looking at http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/4264208321.html, there are several, decent looking, $1000 cars here in the Fargo/Moorhead area (I'm from MN myself), if you're willing to make the 3 hour drive of course.

 

[tery]

Thank you very much Waffles...The cam lobe idea is what I was trying to think of,,,that'll be so easy

 

[tery]

Hey Jim, thanks for your input...What about Gates belts.....thats what I got for the first one and it seems just fine

 

[jimtash]

Never used Gates but the Dayco crap is something I'll never use. Drove me nuts trying to find a timing belt whine with one of these belts on. I can literally replace a timing belt in under 2 hours because of all the practice of constantly going in and either loosening the tensioner manually or replacing sprockets trying to get it to go away. And this was after suffering a broken tensioner stud. Installed a Cloyes belt and everything went away. Not sure if Gates is Italian made but if it works for you that's good. I'll stick with Cloyes or a US made equivalent.

These belts hardly ever break unless maintenance has been neglected and the belt has seen overuse. If you can hear a knocking noise down below when the crank is turning over, it means the tensioner is sitting on it getting beat on by the sprocket. Look at the bottom timing cover for damage as well. It'll be split around the inspection door and the door itself will be missing.

 

[tery]

THanks so...meaning that the tensioner is broken of the stud and has fallen into the bottom of the timing cover. I ordered a tensioner thinking that if the belt broke it'd be good to start fresh with that part too...I checked and Gates is US made...I find out next Saturday
thnkas again ,
T

 

[waffles]

I have a gates belt in my car and haven't had any issues with it (for only 4k). I also put a new tensioner in while I had the motor all apart as I didn't want to have to dig into the front for another 60K miles. When I pulled my 175K 3.0 apart, I could spin the tensioner and hear a grinding noise that wasn't very healthy. I would say, if your car is getting up there in the mileage and hasn't ever had it replaced, it's not a bad idea.

Here are a few good sources on sho maintenance: http://www.shophoenixproject.com/maint.htm
http://www.kurtmetros.com/timingbelt.html

As always don't be afraid to ask questions!
-Waffles

 

[jimtash]

THanks so...meaning that the tensioner is broken of the stud and has fallen into the bottom of the timing cover. I ordered a tensioner thinking that if the belt broke it'd be good to start fresh with that part too...I checked and Gates is US made...I find out next Saturday
thnkas again ,
T

Yep. You'll know rather quickly if just the belt is broke or it's something else.

Broken tensioner studs were becoming fairly common around here even though the stud itself carries no real load after the spring is released and the whole timing assembly is rotated around before the nut is tightened down. It's real purpose is to prevent the tensioner from swinging back and forth losing tension. Unless of course there's some kind of defect in the belt that places too much stress on it causing something to break. Some people were blaming the springs themselves as putting too much preload on the belts but that doesn't account for the whine in my case after I manually put some slack into the belt. It would still whine while at the same time fluttering between the cam sprockets and hitting the top cover because it was too loose. I could never adjust the whine out of a Dayco belt and whatever is/was the cause of that noise is also the reason for the studs breaking.

 

[tompumped]

Thanks for the information. I personally use nothing but gates belts timing or otherwise.

That's pretty crazy that the belt is that tight, you'd think it would be nearly impossible to install it.

I recently replaced my water pump and ended up doing a front 60k while I was in there, that gates belt had 50k on it.

 

[rubydist]

I have had over a dozen of these cars and have used both Gates and Dayco belts in them and I have never had a problem with the belt no matter what manufacturer. I have never seen a belt so short that it could not be tensioned properly, but I have seen ones that have been adjusted too tight.

 

[jimtash]

All I know Ruby is as soon as I started the engine with the Cloyes belt on it, the whining was gone. Didn't have to do anything to it. Whatever causes the Dayco/Italian belts to whine is not good. Nor can one belt end up overtightened while the other functions fine even though the same components and procedures were used. I know it makes no sense but that annoying whine is gone with the Cloyes and I'm pretty sure that I'll never go through another broken tensioner stud again as well.

 

[Fordlover96]

I have a Gates timing belt that I was supposed to do my 60k with. It says made in USA right on the bottom.

 

[typhoon5000]

Another thing to watch out for is crank cancer, where the slot for the woodruff key in the timing pulley on the crank has opened up and smashed the key out of place. This could cause the crank to spin, but not the timing belt pulley, or it might intermittently.

Like this:


Unfortunately, the only way to find out for sure is to pull the crank pulley off.

 

[ShadetreeSHOguy]

Um. all ive ever used is Dayco belts. Never had an issue? Maybe operator error in installation?