Need help...won't start!

[gbelous]

I drove my sho to the store yesterday and when I came back out, it wouldn't start. Not even turning over or clicking from the solenoid on the starter and no movement in the starter. I recently replaced the brushes in the starter as well as got a new solenoid. It ran fine for a few months now. The connections on the solenoid and the ground on the starter are tight so I don't know what else it could be.

I removed the solenoid and tested it with wires to the battery and it shot in like it should have. I even tested the "old" one the same way and the piston on it worked. I don't know what else to look at or consider. The wires go from the battery to the solenoid so there is no intermediate "thing" that can go wrong. Is there anything between the key and the battery or solenoid that might break?

Thanks for any help...not a very fun 4th so far!

-- also want to add that the battery is a few months old (headlights, radio etc all still work and I tried jumping the car and still no movement in the starter/solenoid).

alternator is a year or so old.

when I try to start the car, the ONLY sound I hear is a click coming from a small (1"x1"x2") relay( I think) that is located at the front driver side near the intake filter.

and for a week or so, I would get in in the morning and it would start fine, if I ran to the store, I would get back in 30 min later and it would hesitate, but would start. Not sure if that helps any, but worth a shot.

it is a 1994 atx

 

[shoon]

Couple things to try:

1. Try shifting into neutral and with your foot on the brake try and start it.

2. Using a test light, check for battery power going to the solenoid (big fat cable). Also confirm that the signal wire to the solenoid is working while someone cranks the key (the tiny wire) should have an R stamped on the solenoid iirc.

 

[gbelous]

I tried starting in neutral and nothing. I don't have a test light so I'm not sure how to do that test.

 

[shoon]

I tried starting in neutral and nothing. I don't have a test light so I'm not sure how to do that test.

Do you have a multimeter?
Just need to make sure of 2 things:
1. Power to the solenoid / motor
2. Ignition switched ground connection to solenoid.

 

[gbelous]

no multimeter either. what does number 2 mean? After I pulled the solenoid off, I noticed that the ground on the starter/motor bolt was loose, so I put everything back together and it still didn't start at all.

 

[shoon]

no multimeter either. what does number 2 mean? After I pulled the solenoid off, I noticed that the ground on the starter/motor bolt was loose, so I put everything back together and it still didn't start at all.

For example^

the black wire with the tiny nut on it. When you turn the key to crank the engine, it closes a switch making the wire grounded.

 

[NEp8ntballer]

could be the biginnings of a Crank Position Sensor on the way out.

 

[gbelous]

this one has one of those slide tabs, but i cleaned and checked the wire, so it is fine in the solenoid side, not sure where it leads to, i was only able to follow it a little ways before it got jumbled in a group of wires.
if it's the crank position sensor, would that cause nothing to operate in the starter or solenoid?
would a bad ignition switch cause this to happen but still let other lights and electronics to work?

 

[NEp8ntballer]

this one has one of those slide tabs, but i cleaned and checked the wire, so it is fine in the solenoid side, not sure where it leads to, i was only able to follow it a little ways before it got jumbled in a group of wires.
if it's the crank position sensor, would that cause nothing to operate in the starter or solenoid?
would a bad ignition switch cause this to happen but still let other lights and electronics to work?

if it was the crank sensor it would be an intermittent problem so if you had this problem yesterday and went back out a little later(about an hour) it would most likely start. as far as the ignition switch that is another possibility but you would have to remove it to inspect it.

 

[rubydist]

could be the biginnings of a Crank Position Sensor on the way out.

No, the crank position sensor being bad allows cranking, just does not allow spark.

This problem is a faulty connection somewhere between the key and the solenoid, since he's tested the solenoid and its known good. There is at least one fuse to check, and it could be the key switch itself not closing properly.

 

[gbelous]

where is the key switch?

 

[shoon]

where is the key switch?

steering column. Will have to remove the plastic shroud around the column and the ignition tumbler as well to get the cover off...

your better off investing in a cheap $10 test light and working your way form the starter back.

Check all your underhood and underdash fuses too just in case (using a test light will make that faster)

 

[SuperHO]

lesson 1: always start with the absurdly obvious. for example...have you checked your fuses? have you checked the positive terminal on your battery to make sure you have a good connection? does everything else work when you kick the key over, like the lights and stuff?

 

[gbelous]

Ive pulled all the fuses under the hood and they are fine. The battery terminals are fine, wires are tight and it's clean. All lights, radio etc work fine too. I'll have to go pick up a test light and try that.

is the key switch the same as an ignition switch that I can see on the autozone website?

 

[SHOZ123]

If the power antenna works then the key switch is good as it is on the same circuit as the starter solenoid.

The power goes from the ignition switch through the MLP on the tranny to the solenoid.

When cranking with the test light see if there is 12V on the Red and light Blue wire at the MLP or the DIS.

 

[rubydist]

Ive pulled all the fuses under the hood and they are fine. The battery terminals are fine, wires are tight and it's clean. All lights, radio etc work fine too. I'll have to go pick up a test light and try that.

is the key switch the same as an ignition switch that I can see on the autozone website?

Yes, ignition switch = key switch

Check fuses under the dash too, iirc one of those can trip you up on the start circuit as well. My red 94 will randomly blow the brakelight fuse for no apparent reason, so you might have the same type of issue on your ignition circuit....

 

[gbelous]

whats the MLP and DIS.
I just picked up a multi-meter but I have no idea how to use it. What setting should it be on for testing this stuff?
V D/C 500?

I also tried jumping the starter by touching a wire to the positive contacts on the solenoid and touching the body of the starter as well as the other contact that connects the solenoid and starter. there were sparks, but no movement in either the solenoid or starter.

I checked the antenna and it works, so I guess it's not the starter switch.
Still lost and no clue what to do next.

Should I take the starter apart and see if there is anything worn in there? Maybe it needs to be replaced.
But even if the starter was bad, wouldn't the solenoid still engage and pull the starter into the flywheel even if it isn't turning?

and i checked EVERY fuse...both under the hood and dash and none were blown.

 

[NEp8ntballer]

whats the MLP and DIS.
I just picked up a multi-meter but I have no idea how to use it. What setting should it be on for testing this stuff?
V D/C 500?

I also tried jumping the starter by touching a wire to the positive contacts on the solenoid and touching the body of the starter as well as the other contact that connects the solenoid and starter. there were sparks, but no movement in either the solenoid or starter.

I checked the antenna and it works, so I guess it's not the starter switch.
Still lost and no clue what to do next.

Should I take the starter apart and see if there is anything worn in there? Maybe it needs to be replaced.
But even if the starter was bad, wouldn't the solenoid still engage and pull the starter into the flywheel even if it isn't turning?

and i checked EVERY fuse...both under the hood and dash and none were blown.

If the starter motor is going bad the solenoid won't be able to push it into the flywheel. Instead of using a wire use a screwdriver to jump the two posts so you can get as much current flowing as possible. Just make sure you aren't touching the metal shaft of the screwdriver when you do it. If you got some sparks it sounds like the starter motor is starting to sieze. what you can do is try hitting the starter with a hammer a couple times while another person tries to turn the key. you might be able to jar it loose and get it to start. If that happens you know for sure it's the starter motor.

use the ohms setting to check the resistance in the wires. you should be reading in the tenths of an ohm or less from a ground to the body or from the terminal to a connection. If you read anything higher than one ohm your wires are starting to go bad. It's been awhile and I forgot what infinite resistance looks like but you'll probably know it if you see it.

 

[SHOZ123]

Set the thing on volts to check it with the key on and shifting through the gears. On ohms to check resistance.

The Manual Lever Position sensor is attached to the tranny side of the shifter cable and is what tells the the car what gear it is in.

Here is how to test it.



http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/741680/fullsize/ax4s-mlp-trs-testing.gif

 

[SHOZ123]

Do you hear a click when turning the key? If not then the solenoid is inactive and the problem is more than likely before it.