MY official 3.2 into MTX Project thread.

[93rev2sev]

Well, It's on!

Last night, I picked up a hoist (borrowed) and I should have the 3.2 out by tomorrow night.

This thread will chronicle a budget minded 3.2 swap.

With the help and encouragement of the SHOForum Community, I will be pulling a 1995 3.2 (115k on the clock) from a rear ended parts car and installing it into my 1993 Black MTX this winter.

Here's the kicker:
The 93 is my daily driver and I am aiming for only one day of downtime.

Step one, once the motor is pulled will be inspection/cleaning. I anticipate needing to replace the following on the 3.2:

Swap related:
Timing cover (middle and lower)
Rear Timing cover
Water pump housing
Accessory belt tensioner
Accessory Belt Idler.
Oil Pan
Oil Pump
Power Steering Bracket
Lower timing cover
Timing tensioner
Crank Pully
A/C Bracket
Alternator and bracket
Rear Exhaust Manifold

Wear related:
Plugs
Wires
Rod bearings (I might take a look at replacing the mains also if the rod bearings looked wiped)
Water pump
Crank Sensor
Timing belt
Valve Shims (where needed)
Intake and valve cover gaskets
Cam seals
Cam Chain Tensioners

Anticipated Swap MODS needed:
Grind mounting boss on front head to allow for 3.0 accessories.
Plug EGR port on intake.
Help me fill this out....what else do I need to MOD?

 

[SHO M0nk3y]

Thats pretty well it....I cant find it right now but at home i have a bookmark to a thread on here that covers pretty much everything.

And yes you'll need the 3.0L headers.

Over the winter as I do mine I am going to do a detailed write including parts lists and what options you have when doing the build, stay tuned.

 

[CerberuS]

Congrats , you too getting it done.

If you havnt read it , this is a good writeup.

http://www.shoboard.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=1

 

[92ShoOff]

Do the swap in one day???? Ouch... I don't think that's at all possible. Just tearing down both motors to swap things over took me a day. And I know it's less time consuming to leave the 3.2 heads on the 3.2 block but I'd just swap the 3.0 heads over and adjust the valve lash on those using shims from all 4 heads. Adjusting the valve lash alone is a time consuming job, especially if you're picky like me.

As far as the rear 3.2 exhaust manifold goes you'll want to leave it aside and use the 3.0 manifold. If I recall, both front manifolds are the same. But I do know that the rear 3.2 has something that mounts to the side of it. It's the EGR connection or something that runs up to the intake manifold I believe.

Why not also just use the 3.0 intake manifold? Or maybe just use the 3.2 manifold temporarily until you can paint and swap back over the 3.0 manifold. But I'd say it's easier using the 3.0 intake manifold and heads. Plus the 3.0 intake cams on the 3.0 heads are slightly more aggresive.

I would also do new front and rear main seals. Do them now so you don't have to tear everything back apart to them later with the motor in the car. I know I'm forgetting a few things but I'm in a hurry to get ready to run to work here soon, so I'll see if I can remember anything else when I get back home late tonight. But I'd realistically plan for at least 3 days of on this job because there's a bunch of work to be had. The best thing you can do is strip down that 3.2 block to where you want it to be when you're ready to start throwing the 3.0 parts on it. That way you can just yank the 3.0 and start tossing the 3.0 parts on the 3.2 motor with less down time since the 3.2 will be all ready. Do the bearings, the valve lash, front and rear main seals, etc. etc. before you pull that 3.0 out. Hope that helps man!

 

[CerberuS]

Do the swap in one day???? Ouch... I don't think that's at all possible. Just tearing down both motors to swap things over took me a day. And I know it's less time consuming to leave the 3.2 heads on the 3.2 block but I'd just swap the 3.0 heads over and adjust the valve lash on those using shims from all 4 heads. Adjusting the valve lash alone is a time consuming job, especially if you're picky like me.

As far as the rear 3.2 exhaust manifold goes you'll want to leave it aside and use the 3.0 manifold. If I recall, both front manifolds are the same. But I do know that the rear 3.2 has something that mounts to the side of it. It's the EGR connection or something that runs up to the intake manifold I believe.

Why not also just use the 3.0 intake manifold? Or maybe just use the 3.2 manifold temporarily until you can paint and swap back over the 3.0 manifold. But I'd say it's easier using the 3.0 intake manifold and heads. Plus the 3.0 intake cams on the 3.0 heads are slightly more aggresive.

I would also do new front and rear main seals. Do them now so you don't have to tear everything back apart to them later with the motor in the car. I know I'm forgetting a few things but I'm in a hurry to get ready to run to work here soon, so I'll see if I can remember anything else when I get back home late tonight. But I'd realistically plan for at least 3 days of on this job because there's a bunch of work to be had. The best thing you can do is strip down that 3.2 block to where you want it to be when you're ready to start throwing the 3.0 parts on it. That way you can just yank the 3.0 and start tossing the 3.0 parts on the 3.2 motor with less down time since the 3.2 will be all ready. Do the bearings, the valve lash, front and rear main seals, etc. etc. before you pull that 3.0 out. Hope that helps man!

Me too just taking it out , plus stripping the 3.0 took a lil more then a day , 2 guys on it (no hoist).

And up to date i got another day for sandblasting the subframe , prime it , and im still at the state of sandblasting some parts here and there.

 

[93rev2sev]

Allow me to clarify, I will be aiming for 1 day of down time on my daily driver. My goal is to take my time and build up the 3.2, without touching the 3.0 that is well...in use.
Thats why I need to get the 3.0 parts lined up.
The way I figure it, If I get the 3.2 set up to drop into the MTX car, I will be able to swap the 2 motors when ever I feel like it.
In order to do this, I will need to aquire all the 3.0 specific parts and install them onto the 3.2 prior to putting my car under the knife for the uh...outpatient procedure.

 

[92ShoOff]

Allow me to clarify, I will be aiming for 1 day of down time on my daily driver. My goal is to take my time and build up the 3.2, without touching the 3.0 that is well...in use.
Thats why I need to get the 3.0 parts lined up.
The way I figure it, If I get the 3.2 set up to drop into the MTX car, I will be able to swap the 2 motors when ever I feel like it.
In order to do this, I will need to aquire all the 3.0 specific parts and install them onto the 3.2 prior to putting my car under the knife for the uh...outpatient procedure.

Ahhh okay if you're gonna get your hands on the needed 3.0 parts and get them installed prior to taking out YOUR 3.0 then I guess 1 day is possible. What do you plan on doing for a clutch? Swapping over your 3.0, or getting a new one? If getting a new one go for the SPEC Stage 2+ and lightweight flywheel. You'll love it. I still say use the 3.0 heads, unless you can find someone selling used 3.0 intake cams so you can swap them into your 3.2 heads.

I just freshly did my 3.2 swap so my head is still filled with info on that, so if you have any questions feel free to ask. And if you need any spare 3.2 parts by any chance let me know because I have plenty. But you'll probably mainly be needing 3.0 parts more than anything else. Well good luck and keep us updated!

-Andrew

 

[93rev2sev]

OK engine is out and it actually looks pretty good upon first inspection. Most of the seals look to be leaking at least a little but no gushers. I havent even drained the oil yet, but its on the stand and ready for a clean garage.

 

[newby92]

yeah heres a little peice of advice, dont throw away the old thrust bearings from your 3.2 because my main bearing set from RCM did not come with them and i had to tear down the 3.0 to get them out before i could even build the short block for the 3.2. wow was i ever ******. and yes they are interchangable between 3.0 and 3.2.

 

[93rev2sev]

unless the rod bearings are trashed, I won't be digging that deep. It's good to know about the washers though.

 

[93rev2sev]

I have the timing covers off and it looks like they used a 3.0 timing belt from the factory. I cannot seem to get the marks on the belt to line up with the dots on the sprockets.



And heres what a leaking water pump will do...see all that green and white stuff that has collected below the belt and is sticking to the vanes on the CPS? That's corrosion from the water pump leaking and getting it all wet in there.





Here's a tip: If you pull off the upper timing cover and the belt has rust on the teeth, you've got a bad water pump.

 

[93rev2sev]

Well I have taken off the timing belt, sprockets, and rear timing cover. It looks like I will be needing cam seals. The crank looks great but the waterpump housing confuses me. It's a LOT different than the 3.0. Anyone got a picture of a 3.0 waterpump and housing?
Edit, Pics to follow when I get batteries.

 

[92ShoOff]

The best pic I have of the water pump is of it assembled and installed to the block and heads. It's the same picture I showed you on your thread asking for pics of 3.0 with no timing covers.

 

[93rev2sev]

Can I steal that photo? I wanna resize and repost it side by side with the 3.0

OK so waterpumps are diff too? not just the housing?

 

[92ShoOff]

Yeah man, do whatever you want with that photo. But you are correct, both the housing and pump itself are different on the 3.0.

 

[92ShoOff]

Oh and be sure to inspect your cylinder walls when checking the rod bearings. From the looks of your 3.2 motor I'd say it has probably been sitting a while. I picked my 3.2 up last December from a salvage yard in the Bronx, NY. It was snowing and all, and I'm not sure how long that motor sat after the car it was pulled from was totalled, but it looks like the moisture from the winter weather took its toll on the cylinder walls somehow or other. The bottoms of a few of the walls were pitted and wouldn't have been acceptable. My machinist had to bore the walls to 93mm to clear the bad spots.

 

[strings1732]

Well, It's on!

Last night, I picked up a hoist (borrowed) and I should have the 3.2 out by tomorrow night.

This thread will chronicle a budget minded 3.2 swap.

With the help and encouragement of the SHOForum Community, I will be pulling a 1995 3.2 (115k on the clock) from a rear ended parts car and installing it into my 1993 Black MTX this winter.

Here's the kicker:
The 93 is my daily driver and I am aiming for only one day of downtime.

Step one, once the motor is pulled will be inspection/cleaning. I anticipate needing to replace the following on the 3.2:

Swap related:
Timing cover (middle and lower)
Rear Timing cover
Water pump housing
Accessory belt tensioner
Accessory Belt Idler.
Oil Pan
Oil Pump
Power Steering Bracket
Lower timing cover
Timing tensioner
Crank Pully
A/C Bracket
Alternator and bracket
Rear Exhaust Manifold

Wear related:
Plugs
Wires
Rod bearings (I might take a look at replacing the mains also if the rod bearings looked wiped)
Water pump
Crank Sensor
Timing belt
Valve Shims (where needed)
Intake and valve cover gaskets
Cam seals
Cam Chain Tensioners

Anticipated Swap MODS needed:
Grind mounting boss on front head to allow for 3.0 accessories.
Plug EGR port on intake.
Help me fill this out....what else do I need to MOD?

Just a few things:
the oil pump from the 3.2 can be used. It has a slightly better oiling capacity
the 3.0 cams should be swapped in whether you use the 3.0 or 3.2 heads. they would offer better performance
Main bearings should be fine and have no problems.
The pickup tube should be removed and retourqued and quite possibly loc-tited. otherwise you end up like me, it vibrates loose and you lose all oil pressure and spin every bearing in the motor(never touched it during my swap because I re-used the 3.2 oil pump and it worked fine till then)

The motor can be swapped in a day, but I would give it two just to be on the safe side.

 

[93rev2sev]

The car was wrecked in March. It has been in my garage since then - the engine has been sealed the whole time. I will be sure to inspect the cylinder walls.
I want to use the 3.0 oil pump because the 3.0 timing cover fits correctly and there will not be much difference in pump output.
I would rather not swap cams...these ones look cherry and the last thing I want is a stripped cam cap boss. The difference in cams is fairly slight and I am not too worried about maximising output. I will be sure to check the lash, but I have a feeling there will be no shims out of spec and no real good reason (dyno results would be nice) to swap them.

Thanks for the tip on the oil pump pickup - I'll make sure I loctite the pickup nuts. I think I remember loctiting the pickup nuts when I did the rod bearings in the 3.0 but it's been 5000 miles so I guess they're not going anywhere - that would speed up my swap for sure.

 

[strings1732]

my timing cover fit properly, I just wasn't able to use one bolt, but that was ok since lost that one anyway... as long as you only re-torque the cam caps once,you won' strip out a boss. it takes at least 3 or 4 torqueings to strip them out(ask myself or Jason/yamahasho about that). I personally think the 3.0 cams are better, but that's my opinion. either way, good luck with the swap!

 

[93rev2sev]

Does anyone have actual Dyno results showing the gains with the 3.0 cams?
If the product of the gains in HP and TQ is less than 10...I wont bother.