Moonroof

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98SF19

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As I got home tonight and was closing up all windows and moonroof, I noticed an abrupt clicking/popping sound coming from the headliner. It was unable to get it to angle up OR slide back into roof fully. I could get it to just drop a bit when trying to slide it back, but it would stop just after getting going. Fortunately I was able to bring it back to the normal position. All I could find on the forum was a post from Stephen from years ago. Hopefully, he'll have some suggestions. If it's yet another gadget that goes by the wayside on this car, I can only hope that it remains water-tight.

UPDATE: This morning, I got in, cranked 'er up and tested out the moonroof operation - it's now worse. All that happens is a clicking from the access hatch when I try to angle it up, and absolutely nothing moving or making sounds when I try the auto slide-back. As my AC isn't working, I've been relying on having the ability to crack the moonroof to let out heat (to slow the window-fogging) when it's raining and I gotta drive at night.
 
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stephen newberg

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Its been a long time now, but it is my memory that there is one of those truly stupid plastic gear cogs that run the operations of the moon roof, and once they start to wear a bit, they wear very quickly to dead. You are going to have to take it all apart up there, I am afraid, to get at stuff, and then likely replace those gear cogs. If you are planning to keep the car long term and have spare bucks, getting a machine shop to spin you up those cogs made from brass is a good option. Otherwise, they are the same ones used in all the other Gen III Tauri, so getting replacements will hopefully not be difficult.

Wish I had better news for you.

pax, smn
 

98SF19

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Does this operation include the tilt AND the full retraction? I'm having a shop make new rub strips from aluminum, so I might just have them do the gears too. Are these gears in a housing that is run by the motor? As for the plastic gears, I'm sure that if the IMRC plastic gear had been made of a better material, the cable would have wound up snapping eventually (which I think happened to my first one). A better gear coupled with a Nimzified catch can to slow the intake accumulating crap may have been what they should have done from the start.

Thanks for the reply!
 

stephen newberg

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To your question, yes, the gear set as two functions, one is tilt and the other is retract/close. There is a housing area that, IIRC, I had to get through via the roof liner.

The thing to do with the IMRC, IMO and from some long term testing that has been done by knowledgeable people about here, is to throw it away and wire the butterflies open or remove them entirely. Getting rid of them completely is a fair amount of work as you also then have to deal with filling the support holes for the axles and such. Its pretty conclusive from the testing done that they do not really help the motor at all.

pax, smn
 

98SF19

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The access area you mention . . . are you referring to the access PANEL above the rear seat, or taking down the headliner? If I can get NOS parts, I'll just go that route. They lasted 17 years after all.
Re: IMRC (it's amazing how easily a thread can morph) - I'd heard that the restriction on airflow with working IMRC allowed a better ratio at low end, but leaving them in, even wired, would likely create a restriction at high end. The sound of the secondaries opening at medium throttle was pretty slick though. You don't get the same with them wired (which mine currently are BTW). I've gone into the intake once, to change valve cover gaskets a few years ago, but I don't believe I went far enough in to get to the butterflies. That'll have to be one I tackle when this is no longer my DD (along with dropping the motor, just to say I did it, kinda like running a marathon).
 

stephen newberg

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With regret, it is my memory that you had to take down the head liner. Hopefully I am remembering wrong, because it is a pita.

I think most of the research that members did on the IMRC ended up showing the main thing it did (besides fail closed) was have that sound. I vaguely remember there being something about it having been designed for when the intakes were a different length but when that got changed, the IMRC did not get deleted as it should have been.

Its a really fine car, but a few changes can make it a touch better. :)

pax, smn
 

98SF19

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Stephen, looks like the motor components are ok - motor operation appears unbound. After taking glass panel up and out and operating the switches, the passenger side bracket wants to jump out of the track upon sliding forward from a rearward glass retracted state. This, coupled with the piece of brittle plastic that I found near the front of the driver's side are probably what caused it all.

Anyhoo, I was able to find Bullgeek's posts from 2 other taurus sites in which he includes you tube links of progress (or lack thereof). One of these (the better of them as you don't need to be a member to see attachments) is here: http://www.taurusclub.com/forum/82-maintenance-repair/175334-moonroof-stuck-open-help.html

This appears to pertain to the problem I'm having. I'll post update once I've given it my all.
 

stephen newberg

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Very good, Ryan. Look forward to what you find out, but yes, popping out of the track sounds like the symptom causing your problem. Final diagnostic step is to figure out which bit of plastic died to allow it to happen. Then you are just over to replacement. "Just". :)

pax, smn
 

98SF19

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Ok, I got it figured out and it wasn't that bad. I want to put this issue to bed, and hopefully anybody with a similar issue can benefit . . .
As stated, the problem was the sliding brackets which open and close the moonroof as they advance and retract - some resistance caused by a piece of broken plastic had caused the motor to become out of sync with the brackets' position. The link I included above really has all information needed, but I decided to articulate a bit more . . . here's my pic: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/50438230/Moonroof Calibration Position.jpg
This is what I did (referencing picture). This is apparently the accepted procedure:

- First, I positioned moonroof to closed (just get it at least close to being closed). This makes things easier during adjustment.

- Removed access panel cover from roof above rear seat. The motor can then be removed by taking out two screws, one on each side. You might need to turn the assembly slightly to disengage it from the cog.

- Wrapped some old electrical tape around cog to protect threads (to prevent stripping them) and turned it with pliers until the forward pins were at position of YELLOW arrow in pic (looking at passenger side).

- There are 3 screws holding glass panel assembly onto the sliding brackets. The BLUE arrow in pic shows the rear-most of these. When I had taken the glass out a while ago to clear out the plastic pieces, I must have put the panel back in wrong with respect to these 6 screws. So to fix this, I loosened all 6, and with the help of my son holding flashlight, I gently lifted from underneath to position glass panel flush with top of roof and tightened down screws. At the rear pair, the glass needed to go about as high as it could, and I didn't adjust the front 2 (though afterward, I did notice the front of glass panel could have come up a smidge). The middle pair are really just there to hold it in place better.

- With the glass fine-tuned to flush with top of roof, and sliding brackets in the right position, turn key to on to power the moonroof motor. Operate the VENT button (driver's side) open, which will auto stop. Then hold down the close button until motor stops. The motor is now sync'd with the position of the moonroof.

- Reinstall motor, turning slightly to re-engage with cog, and being sure to keep firm upward pressure while replacing screws. Test moonroof operation and feel free to further fine-tune if desired. If not, pop access cover back on and crack one open. The 6 screws can be adjusted at any time really.

That is the accepted procedure, more or less. But looking back, I think it might make more sense to set the moonroof to fully vented, pushing the sliding brackets as far forward as possible, before calibrating to THAT point. This syncs the motor with a hard stop, instead of a point "somewhere" near the yellow arrow in my pic that still might be a wee bit too far forward, thus causing the motor to expect more forward travel when there is none. If this happens, you'll hear the motor relay clicking. But then if you don't hear the clicking, you might wonder if you set the brackets a bit too far back, thus preventing the vent position from rising as much as it should. With the forward-most/high-vent position calibration, you'd know for sure that the motor's shut-off vent open point would match to where you physically extended the brackets.
 

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