Long crank before start...

[JoeG]

I did a search of past topics and couldn't find a topic that was right on.. so here goes. Since I bought the SHO, it's been hard to start. When you turn the key, it will crank for like 5 seconds or more before it catches and starts. It sounds like a normal crank, the engine just doesn't start. I've tried turing the key to run and letting it sit for a second to pressurize the fuel lines, doesn't help. I've also used the paperclip and dumped the codes. Only code was a stored code 117 - which seems to be ECT sensor too low or grounded.

But I don't think that would affect starting. Any ideas on where to start?

Thanks!
Joe

`93 SHO ATX

 

[Mr Anonymous]

How old are your plugs/wires?

 

[JoeG]

The wires look fairly new (just bought the car), and I did the Cylinder Balance Test.. came out with a 9. It idles perfect and seems fine when running. I can pull a plug and see how it looks, but I was thinking it would be more of a sensor problem?

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[projectSHO89]

Time for a static fuel pressure test.

If you can still find them in stock, Sears Hardware stores has a FP tester from ACTRON on sale for 20 bucks (half price). I scored the last one in the Florissant store yesterday!

Steve

 

[TYSHO]

Check valve! Same on my 93. On the second time it fires right up. Turn the key back and forth to 'run' a couple of times (3-5), then start it. It's not a guarantee, it can be other things too. Do you hear a gargle noise from the fuel tank after starting or when running?

 

[masho95]

Try starting the vehicle with the gas pedal to the floor, the first time. See if it starts right up.

 

[JoeG]

Guys,

Tried turing the key to run 3 times and letting the fuel pump run, then on the 4th time actually starting it. Didn't help.

Also later tried with the gas all the way to the floor. Seemed to make it more difficult. It kind of started then stalled immediately. Tried again, stalled. Then did it with no gas and it worked.

Does this help?

Also, should I tried the fuel pressure guage? Where does it hook up?

Thanks,
Joe

<small>[ December 01, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: JoeG ]</small>

 

[masho95]

Sounds like a lack of fuel (fuel pump time) causing the hard start. A fuel pressure tester attaches to the schreader valve on top of the intake. It's located between the two fuel rails and slightly to the driver side. Get some fuel pressure #'s for us. Fuel pressure after sitting a while (overnight), pressure after turning the key to run, pressure turning the key to start, and pressure while running. Also check the pressure like 5-10 mins. after running the car.

 

[TYSHO]

Do it again, but quicker. I'm sure if you put it in run and check the rails...0psi. Check Valve, FPR, fuel filter, and on the list...many things. Do you hear that gargle noise I mentioned? **** spark plug wires will make a difference, even if they look good. You need some good current through those wires.

Good Luck!

Edit: IIRC, starting it with the pedal floored 'will' shut off the fuel pump, correct? Wouldn't that make since for the start up stall? Correct me if I'm wrong. shrug

<small>[ December 01, 2003, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: TYSHO ]</small>

 

[91 SHOplus]

TYSHO:
IIRC, starting it with the pedal floored 'will' shut off the fuel pump, correct? Wouldn't that make since for the start up stall? Correct me if I'm wrong. shrug

That is correct, sounds like you need a fuel pump in your near future. My sho also has a long crank time, but if I turn the key to 'on' for about 3-5 seconds, then continue to turn it to the 'start' position, she fires right up.

 

[Slo-Sho]

TYSHO:

Edit: IIRC, starting it with the pedal floored 'will' shut off the fuel pump, correct? Wouldn't that make since for the start up stall? Correct me if I'm wrong. shrug

Depressing the accelerator pedal to the floor while cranking tells the PCM that the engine is flooded and does not fire the injectors. I don't know if the ignition system is active during this time. I do this for about 8 seconds right after every oil change to minimize dry start.

 

[projectSHO89]

TYSHO:

Edit: IIRC, starting it with the pedal floored 'will' shut off the fuel pump, correct? Wouldn't that make since for the start up stall? Correct me if I'm wrong. shrug

That is incorrect.

Flooring the pedal at startup shuts off the injectors, not the pump.

Steve

 

[JoeG]

Well on the weekend I'm going to do the fuel line pressure tests.. I'll get back to you guys.

Thanks for all of the help,

Joe

 

[SHOZ123]

Fuel pump runs for one second when the key is turned on. If no ignition is seen then the pump shuts off.

 

[projectSHO89]

Actually, FP runs for one second when power is first applied in RUN.

In START, the FP is kept off until PIP is detected then is turned back on.

If less than one second elapses from the intial RUN condition until PIP is detected, the pump will not have been switched off.

If more than one second has elapsed before PIP is detected, the pump will have switched off (after one second of running) until the receipt of PIP.

Steve

 

[91 SHOplus]

projectSHO89:

TYSHO:

Edit: IIRC, starting it with the pedal floored 'will' shut off the fuel pump, correct? Wouldn't that make since for the start up stall? Correct me if I'm wrong. shrug

That is incorrect.

Flooring the pedal at startup shuts off the injectors, not the pump.

Steve

Thanx for the correction, Steve. thumb

 

[AutoSHO]

Is it hard starting hot and cold or just cold? Do the cooling fans turn on at the appropriate times?

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: AutoSHO ]</small>

 

[LeafsFan13SHO]

My 95 ATX does the same thing when cold.The trick with the key( cranking it for 1 sec. then cycling the ignition switch 4-5 times) it fires right up!
What happens is after sitting overnight or awhile the fuel pressure leaks down.Cycling the switch primes the pump and lines.It'll need a new pump soon but i'll keep on doing it until the freakin pump dies.Trying to save for a jasper trans!!! doh

 

[projectSHO89]

LeafsFan13SHO:
My 95 ATX does the same thing when cold.The trick with the key( cranking it for 1 sec. then cycling the ignition switch 4-5 times) it fires right up!
What happens is after sitting overnight or awhile the fuel pressure leaks down.Cycling the switch primes the pump and lines.It'll need a new pump soon but i'll keep on doing it until the freakin pump dies.Trying to save for a jasper trans!!! doh

A better option than a Jasper: Get a Ford remanned unit. Send it to Doug Lewis down in Atlanta. He will make it as bulletproof as possible.

Steve

 

[JoeG]

Finally got around to doing fuel pressure tests... got the right type of tester. I had an old-school one without the proper fittings.

Anyway- here are the readings:

Overnight, before starting - 0lbs
Turning key to run - momentarily 40lbs
Cranking - 0lbs
Running - 30lbs
Turned off - 0lbs

So, bascially, when I turn the key to run, the needle surges to 40lbs, then a relay or something clicks on the drivers side of the engine and it falls back to 0lbs. Then, when I start the engine, it surges to 40lbs again while cranking, falls to 0, then when it starts goes to 30lbs.

It does this whether it is hold or cold outside.

Any ideas? Does that relay-sounding clicking mean anything?

Thanks,
Joe

<small>[ December 27, 2003, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: JoeG ]</small>