LMS vs Gearhead "Canned Tunes" Comparison

[limited02]

Hmm, I can get that info for you later as I have datalogs of both...

Unless Matt wants to chime in...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your comparison would be the E30 tunes you made a thread about, correct? Not sure if the boost numbers would be different between the E30 tune and 93 tune, but if you have that data it would be nice to see. I recall LMS saying they usually run around 14ish lbs of boost on their 93 tune and I've seen some people on FB posts that GH's 93 tune hits closer to 16lbs.

 

[StealBlueSho]

Your comparison would be the E30 tunes you made a thread about, correct? Not sure if the boost numbers would be different between the E30 tune and 93 tune, but if you have that data it would be nice to see. I recall LMS saying they usually run around 14ish lbs of boost on their 93 tune and I've seen some people on FB posts that GH's 93 tune hits closer to 16lbs.

Numbers are deceiving... a lot of people look at the wrong data...

I have data on both tunes... 93 and E30..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[limited02]

Numbers are deceiving... a lot of people look at the wrong data...

I have data on both tunes... 93 and E30..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I realize there's more to it than just upping the boost. LMS was typically known to make similar power/run similar times on less boost compared to other tuners because they were supposed to have more access to things to change. That may no longer hold true these days, but again, I'm just curious to know the difference in boost. I don't expect a full on report of exact changes because GH, AJPTurbo, Unleashed, LMS, ect do things a little different and that's what makes them unique and gives us different options.

 

[StealBlueSho]

I realize there's more to it than just upping the boost. LMS was typically known to make similar power/run similar times on less boost compared to other tuners because they were supposed to have more access to things to change. That may no longer hold true these days, but again, I'm just curious to know the difference in boost. I don't expect a full on report of exact changes because GH, AJPTurbo, Unleashed, LMS, ect do things a little different and that's what makes them unique and gives us different options.

Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear, looking at the boost numbers people post are often wrong. They sometimes post peak, sometimes post what they see on a boost gauge... etc etc

It’s more about how the tuner controls and demands boost... GH does it differently than any tuner I worked with. I actually pinged Matt after looking at the logs to make sure something wasn’t off lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[limited02]

Sorry, maybe I wasn’t clear, looking at the boost numbers people post are often wrong. They sometimes post peak, sometimes post what they see on a boost gauge... etc etc

It’s more about how the tuner controls and demands boost... GH does it differently than any tuner I worked with. I actually pinged Matt after looking at the logs to make sure something wasn’t off lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get where you're coming from. I have 4 tunes from LMS, three of them are 93 tunes (the last is 91). The first is the regular 93 tune that builds boost in similar fashion as stock, which is bleeding off boost as it nears redline. The second is the 93+ tune that is supposed to hold that boost to redline. The 3rd is their most aggressive tune (93+X) and I assume it also holds boost to redline as well. Obviously there's more to each tune that makes it different other than boost (spark, fueling, etc).

 

[StealBlueSho]

I get where you're coming from. I have 4 tunes from LMS, three of them are 93 tunes (the last is 91). The first is the regular 93 tune that builds boost in similar fashion as stock, which is bleeding off boost as it nears redline. The second is the 93+ tune that is supposed to hold that boost to redline. The 3rd is their most aggressive tune (93+X) and I assume it also holds boost to redline as well. Obviously there's more to each tune that makes it different other than boost (spark, fueling, etc).

The 93+X demands about 12.5psi of boost... 23 degrees of spark at the top end... it also tapers off bad past 5900rpms on the boost. However, for a drop in tune it performs well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mattr66]

Boost VS Power.... lets talk about that. In the distant past, calibrators didn't realize that Ford did some "funny" stuff to timing limits at high load regions. Early tuning didn't allow much timing to be run in the higher boost regions for that reason. Therefore power was dropping off as boost increased. That should be fixed now by the competent calibration writers.

With the GH tunes you have boost based on 3 things IAT (MCT), octane and the ability of the high pressure fuel pump to keep up with demand. GH tunes don't run a set boost, they try to achieve a set VE. To get the same VE at 120 degrees as you do at 75 degrees, you need more boost because the air is less dense. As the air gets hotter though, you have to reduce the VE because you don't have enough octane to run enough timing to keep from overheating your cats.

Boost logic with GH is somewhat like this (on 13+ SHO and all year trucks):
What is my octane? - Sets max VE to keep cats cool because of timing constraints.
What can the fuel pump keep up with? - Sets VE Maximum no matter what (no cold temp issues etc) to prevent fuel pressure drops.
What are post-intercooler temperatures (IAT2/MCT)?- Does boost need to be reduced to prevent hot cats and prevent pre-ignition/detonation.

Long story short, all else being equal, lets say you are driving on a 50 degree day, you stab the throttle and post intercooler you are seeing 80-90 degrees. Boost may start at say 15 lbs because of the colder temps then increase as things heat up to 120 degrees to say 16-16.5 to maintain the same VE as the colder temps. Above that, as the crappy stock intercooler can't keep up, it has to taper boost (VE) back because you have lost octane tolerance and are getting the air too warm to make more power with higher boost at that point.

This isn't a simple thing and GH has played nice with the factory methodology and even enhanced the way it was meant to work. The GH tune was meant to be a drop in and forget about it tune on 95% of the cars. Datalogging allows the other 5% to be able to work flawless in cases of fuel pumps that can't keep up, O2 sensors that may be on their way out and are are over-correcting a bank (and dropping fuel pressure.....), witnessing spark blowout because of bad coils or customers who didn't listen and didn't close the gaps on their plugs, or trans clutches that are a little burnt from previous bad tuning, etc.

 

[SHOdded]

Very cool insight, Matt, thank you.

 

[tech10002]

Just ran 100 miles or so on 87 octane just to see what it would do on Gearhead AO. I filled up at 35 miles to empty, so I have pretty close to 87 average in the tank too. The car is way quicker than I would have ever thought, and all parameters look great. You still get a hard chirp on the 1-2 shift. Knock retard never went above 1 degree in an 8 minute log with a bunch of full throttle runs. Lambda ran .82 at leanest right before the shifts, and there's zero hesitation. Stock the car is soft as **** on 87. It really is "auto octane" and is keeping the car safe no matter how crappy the fuel. I'm impressed. Here's a 0-80 MPH or so pull.

 

[Sgtmeatsauce1]

I dont hava GH or LMS tune, i do habe two other tunes one i am very happy with. My tunes are set up that 1st gear goes to 6200, 2nd gear5900/6000 3rd gear 5800 and 4th 5600. It is a pp car, i usually take traction control and sometimes take it off full. Only tomes i had issues with shifting is when its winter and i have all season tires on. They above shift schedule has pretty much ended any hasdles i had. The GH auto octane feature foes sound awesome since i travel alot and gas is different everywhere. I am tuned for 93 but have seen only 91. 89 or even 87 on occasion. Though besides lost of mpg and some drivability/reaction time as long as I dont beat on it or go wot I can drive it fine until I get 93 into her. I think it must be spinning and bang into red line to vause the goofy shifting.

 

[OmaHahn]

I dont hava GH or LMS tune, i do habe two other tunes one i am very happy with. My tunes are set up that 1st gear goes to 6200, 2nd gear5900/6000 3rd gear 5800 and 4th 5600. It is a pp car, i usually take traction control and sometimes take it off full. Only tomes i had issues with shifting is when its winter and i have all season tires on. They above shift schedule has pretty much ended any hasdles i had. The GH auto octane feature foes sound awesome since i travel alot and gas is different everywhere. I am tuned for 93 but have seen only 91. 89 or even 87 on occasion. Though besides lost of mpg and some drivability/reaction time as long as I dont beat on it or go wot I can drive it fine until I get 93 into her. I think it must be spinning and bang into red line to vause the goofy shifting.

Who are your 2 tunes?

 

[StealBlueSho]

Who are your 2 tunes?

For anyone interested I wrote a detailed review of the Gearhead tunes over at EBPF. Intend to review every tuner I use, and have been asked about GH...

Hope this helps some of you..

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,9707.msg146259/topicseen.html#new

 

[OmaHahn]

For anyone interested I wrote a detailed review of the Gearhead tunes over at EBPF. Intend to review every tuner I use, and have been asked about GH...

Hope this helps some of you..

https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,9707.msg146259/topicseen.html#new

Oh wow, what an excellent review! Thank you so much for posting this and all your work as well! I wrote the exact same thing earlier in this thread - the shifts seemed A LOT quicker than my LMS tune but less harsh! I thought there's no way and I'm losing my mind.
So glad I went with Matt and GH!!!!
Do you need anything special to run e30 like fuel pump or anything else....?

 

[StealBlueSho]

Oh wow, what an excellent review! Thank you so much for posting this and all your work as well! I wrote the exact same thing earlier in this thread - the shifts seemed A LOT quicker than my LMS tune but less harsh! I thought there's no way and I'm losing my mind.
So glad I went with Matt and GH!!!!
Do you need anything special to run e30 like fuel pump or anything else....?

I would ask Matt, but to really get the benefits of E30, you for sure need the XDI or Firestorm HPFP.

 

[SHOdded]

It is an interesting question, because FoMoCoSHO (on EBPF) had AJPturbo tune for as high as E54 on his 2015 SHO, tho ultimately settling on E45 for the long run. No HPFP or anything. So I would get Brad's (AJPturbo's) input on this also. May or may not be possible with Gen 4 (2010-12) SHOs.

 

[SM105K]

I would ask Matt, but to really get the benefits of E30, you for sure need the XDI or Firestorm HPFP.

My car has been 100% safe on a pretty wild AJPTurbo E30 tune with a stock HPFP. However, my climate allows me too. Will I upgrade to the XDI pump at a later date? Yes. I want to run a wild E54 tune all the time.

 

[mattr66]

My car has been 100% safe on a pretty wild AJPTurbo E30 tune with a stock HPFP. However, my climate allows me too. Will I upgrade to the XDI pump at a later date? Yes. I want to run a wild E54 tune all the time.

I either have to lean the mix more than I do for gasoline or drop boost to keep up with fuel demand on E30. The reason this was making more power on stock cars was that the lower boost higher timing combo was delaying intercooler heat soak at the track. With the intercooler upgrade, this is no longer a concern.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[SM105K]

I either have to lean the mix more than I do for gasoline or drop boost to keep up with fuel demand on E30. The reason this was making more power on stock cars was that the lower boost higher timing combo was delaying intercooler heat soak at the track. With the intercooler upgrade, this is no longer a concern.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

I will probably pull the trigger on the new your new IC next week if they are still available.

 

[limited02]

I will probably pull the trigger on the new your new IC next week if they are still available.

And then get it on the dyno to break the 400hp mark! Be nice to see what curve you can pull compared to your previous runs.

 

[SM105K]

And then get it on the dyno to break the 400hp mark! Be nice to see what curve you can pull compared to your previous runs.

Honestly, right now I bet it would crack 400 hp because it is so much cooler. Either way, I will try to toss her on the dyno in the next week or so.