LMS 3 bar V11 93 bounces off rev limiter

[mattr66]

On cars that suffer major fuel pressure dips (when all else seems to be in line) usually lead to an O2 sensor being lazy and over-richening a bank (or both with high mileage sensors) at WOT. You can usually see what's going on at wot when you have a serious difference in long and short term fuel trims between banks. Those of you having problems on LMS V11 may just need to replace your front O2 sensors.....

 

[yaycandy]

On cars that suffer major fuel pressure dips (when all else seems to be in line) usually lead to an O2 sensor being lazy and over-richening a bank (or both with high mileage sensors) at WOT. You can usually see what's going on at wot when you have a serious difference in long and short term fuel trims between banks. Those of you having problems on LMS V11 may just need to replace your front O2 sensors.....

I pulled all 4 out and the front 2 were horribly coated in carbon. I cleaned all 4 real good but that was a day after i stopped using their tune. So i cant confirm if that would of helped but your on a pretty good track

 

[yaycandy]

They all looked as bad as that one but i dont know which of the 4 this exact one is anymore

 

[yaycandy]

I havent loaded my lms tune into my new engine yet. Its just stock tune but its in my garage till spring anyway

 

[SM105K]

There is one customer with GH that has a blown motor, however, it was discovered that the engine had very little oil in it which was not a tuning issue, but a customer maintenance issue.

My motor on my 2010 detonated due to a stuck injector, however, my motor was not running at 100% after the experimenting I did with AJPTurbo. Brad and I worked closely on a lot of stuff, and my SHO was a test bed for a lot of his work. There were some dorked tunes he sent me trying to figure out some things, and after one particular tune, I had a bottom end tick that was steadily getting worse. It was shortly after that one, that I stopped working with AJPTurbo... and I was one of his biggest advocates. I still recommend him from time to time.

There is at least one guy on Facebook who blew a motor shortly after loading the V11 tune from LMS..

In any event, I think its a bit misleading to say no one has blown a motor, etc etc etc..

I hope GH chimes in about the running "lean" comment... as I don't see how running 12.05:1 is considered lean? I suppose it could be considered "leaner" than the 10:88:1 that LMS commands.

AND FOR THE RECORD, YAYCANDY IS THE SAME TROLL FROM BEFORE. JUST CHANGED HIS HANDLE FROM CURTIS "*********" MCNAUGHTON...

SBS, how is it misleading? You said it yourself. The GH "blown motor" was due to lack of oil.

I haven't heard of LMS motor blowing up either. Did the guy on FB say exactly was the cause? I take alot I used to see on FB with a grain of salt.

Your 2010 didn't blow up correct? It was hurt and you traded it in correct? However IIRC, that was after numerous tuners, tunes, and meth right? I would assume track passes? IIRC your car was running mid 12's? What caused the injector to hang? Usually a mechanical issue when I have seen them hang.

I think the statement talking about your experience with AJPTurbo is bias. You knowingly and willing used your SHO as a test bed. When you work closely with a tuner and ask the tuner to turn it up, and keep turning it up, you inherit that associated risk.

I get the dorked tunes ect, I come from the Turbo LS HP Tuners world. However, we all know about the inherit risks pushing a set up. I melted 3 pistons in a fully forged 376, because I told the tuner to shoot for 1K hp because I was right on the verge of being out of fuel at that level. I was chasing the 1000 hp club. Cost me a 8K short block (callies crank, rods, JE pistons) and I learned. However, I did not blame the tuner. I blamed myself for not listening to him, and not further upgraded my fuel system.

 

[mattr66]

View attachment 8212 They all looked as bad as that one but i dont know which of the 4 this exact one is anymore

Excessive carbon buildup.... Ford tried to prevent excessive carbon from too much boost vs not enough timing with the spark/torque ratio limiters but I chose to lean the mixture to what is still considered rich for GDI (.8-.82) to prevent excessive carbon and cat temp. It is a dance between manifold pressure/timing/lambda to keep everything in check... We once dynoed a 3.5 EB truck with a canned tuned from a large red box tuner against ours and found almost the same exact power curve. The difference was that our calibration didn't make the cats glow by the end of the dyno run

 

[shoblock]

Wow! I've been away from this thread for about 2 weeks and there's like 8 new pages full of posts! All I can say is that my LMS V11 failed horribly even with the tranny overfill and other "tricks," mentioned and even a revised tune. Then I find it weird that Matt at Gearhead sends my very 1st tune with him and not only did I get more HP & Torque on the dyno but my shifting issues are completely gone. hyymmm....??

Hear hear. I double that.

 

[Majestic]

Has anyone seen that 10 second EB SHO yet? Asking for a friend.

 

[shoblock]

Thats all i needed to hear, thanks for the simple review of him. I couldnt find any review of his tunes on any forums. He reached out to me on here for a tune and i was sorta skeptical about some of these guys. Ill give him a try

Just read all of the entries on this thread and you will see some of us who walked away from LMS and went happily to Gearhead. There is also a 'lms vs gearhead canned tunes by omahahn that is very clear. Can't believe you missed all that.

 

[bpd1151]

Has anyone seen that 10 second EB SHO yet? Asking for a friend.

Nope, cuz it didn't happen.

Curtis a.k.a. "yaycandy" flip flops more than all the crooked politicians at every level of government. Local, State, or Federal.

Reminds me of Joey Belladonna of Anthrax fame when he sang in their title song "Caught In A Mosh" that "talking to youuuuuuu, is like clapping with one hand".

Ha! Decades later, still applicable.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[OmaHahn]

The difference was that our calibration didn't make the cats glow by the end of the dyno run

Love it!!

 

[yaycandy]

Just read all of the entries on this thread and you will see some of us who walked away from LMS and went happily to Gearhead. There is also a 'lms vs gearhead canned tunes by omahahn that is very clear. Can't believe you missed all that.

Im using Brad, he is down the street from me and ive had some good conversations with him and can work with him in person. No one i know of on here has had issues with him or matt but i rather work with a tuner on a personal level.

 

[OmaHahn]

Nope, cuz it didn't happen.

Curtis a.k.a. "yaycandy" flip flops more than all the crooked politicians at every level of government. Local, State, or Federal.

Reminds me of Joey Belladonna of Anthrax fame when he sang in their title song "Caught In A Mosh" that "talking to youuuuuuu, is like clapping with one hand".

Ha! Decades later, still applicable.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Hey! Quit posting on these forums and get your IC installed, and other parts laying around, and back onto the dyno!!! Waiting with anticipation!

 

[bpd1151]

Hey! Quit posting on these forums and get your IC installed, and other parts laying around, and back onto the dyno!!! Waiting with anticipation!

Haha! Love it!

IKR. But not when temps are at all time record lows and highs (-25 last night, and forecast for -27 tonight).

Bbrrrrr..... one word..... SHRINKAGE. LOL.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[yaycandy]

Haha! Love it!

IKR. But not when temps are at all time record lows and highs (-25 last night, and forecast for -27 tonight).

Bbrrrrr..... one word..... SHRINKAGE. LOL.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

And i thought the 1 degrees where im at was cold, i dont wanna be in MN or Chicago right now

 

[shoblock]

Subjectivity at it's best. Our way is the best....considering the problems we are having.

Agree SM105K. I never know which lie to believe....
Shoblock

 

[shoblock]

You are correct. I have noticed many flip flops with LMS just in the past 10 months.


With v11 there have been many issues. Dangerously low fuel pressure. They claim theses are out of fuel on a hopped up 93 tune at 60 degrees. So they command for more fuel "because they believe that richer is better". If they believe the system is overtaxed, then why is V11 asking for even more fuel and more RPM?

We also know that running these engines "rich" does create more deposits on the intake valves. LMS for many years said the SHO did not need a catch can. I have believed since day one they needed a CC. The first thing I did to my car was add a CC. Low and behold, LMS now has a catch can for sale, and they believe the SHO could benefit from it.

With V11 there are shifting and trans issues. Some guys reporting it sounded and felt like the trans "let go or exploded". LMS shifts their tuned cars higher (when there is zero benefit ) the car is already way past the powerband approaching 6K. More RPM, more time in the dead unusable power zone, more wear and tear under WOT, you catch my drift. I have never had a issue with my transmission shifting, low fuel pressure, or high reving. My fuel pressure stays stable, my shifts are crisp and quick, and my car shifts between 5800 and 6000 rpm. Just because you have always done it that way, and you have access to proprietary Ecoboost knowledge, doesn't mean you are right.

I believe my AJPTurbo tune is better. Period. My car on the E30 tune only (K&N drop in, and 542 plugs) makes more power 391/470 then most full bolt on (intake, full exhaust, T-Stat, LMS tuned) SHO's and that was in 90 degree heat here in Phoenix with the stock heat soaked intercooler. My car is faster then most LMS full bolt on SHO's. 12.56 @ 108, that was with a boost reference line that blew off, and the throttle closing. The car 6o footed a 1.77 and usually goes 112 in the 1/4. So realistically it could have run 12.3X at 112 full weight, 1/4 tank of fuel, and a 250lb driver if things were kosher tune only.

Are you going to try the 2 wheel drive partway down the strip idea????? I know you will post facts if you do. It does seem intriguing. I know my 03 Expedition was quicker in 2wd than AWD, (forgive my comparison) and all of the hardware was still turning in both modes.
Shoblock

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

You are correct. I have noticed many flip flops with LMS just in the past 10 months.

We also know that running these engines "rich" does create more deposits on the intake valves.

Actually, running a tune more rich produces less particulate matter than running a leaner mixture on these vehicles. This is why many new direct injection platforms are moving to a particulate filter system to capture the particulate matter that is produced on lean conditions.

I hope GH chimes in about the running "lean" comment... as I don't see how running 12.05:1 is considered lean? I suppose it could be considered "leaner" than the 10:88:1 that LMS commands.

12 anything is too lean on these for sure. Being as Ford uses a stoich value of 14.08 (E10) you'd be talking about a lambda of ~.86 or leaner. If there wasn't a power adder on it, that wouldn't be too bad. But this is absolutely too lean for boost. It's not even a question in our mind. The myth about being able to run things leaner because of DI is just that. Maybe .77 instead of .74, but not .1 anything.

This is exactly why so many EcoBoost vehicles break, people/tuners think just because something lasts during a logging or tuning session that it's good for life. Our info comes from running true certified durability cycles/tests rather than the approach of "well, it worked on the last car". To us, that approach has never, and will never be enough for us.

 

[StealBlueSho]

SBS, how is it misleading? You said it yourself. The GH "blown motor" was due to lack of oil.

I haven't heard of LMS motor blowing up either. Did the guy on FB say exactly was the cause? I take alot I used to see on FB with a grain of salt.

Your 2010 didn't blow up correct? It was hurt and you traded it in correct? However IIRC, that was after numerous tuners, tunes, and meth right? I would assume track passes? IIRC your car was running mid 12's? What caused the injector to hang? Usually a mechanical issue when I have seen them hang.

I think the statement talking about your experience with AJPTurbo is bias. You knowingly and willing used your SHO as a test bed. When you work closely with a tuner and ask the tuner to turn it up, and keep turning it up, you inherit that associated risk.

I get the dorked tunes ect, I come from the Turbo LS HP Tuners world. However, we all know about the inherit risks pushing a set up. I melted 3 pistons in a fully forged 376, because I told the tuner to shoot for 1K hp because I was right on the verge of being out of fuel at that level. I was chasing the 1000 hp club. Cost me a 8K short block (callies crank, rods, JE pistons) and I learned. However, I did not blame the tuner. I blamed myself for not listening to him, and not further upgraded my fuel system.

Ok, I am going to address this once, and then I am done with this thread.

EVERY tuner has had a motor compromised for one reason or the other. Whether it be from the tune or the end user.

The gentleman on Facebook and I pm'ed several times. It was a brand new SHO, he loaded the tune, and threw a rod shortly after. Could it have been a faulty motor from the factory? Sure, could it have been the tune? Possibly. I was simply pointing out that LMS tuned cars have failed.

This history with AJPTurbo and I is pretty well documented on EBPF. I did run the gamut of tuners with the 2010 SHO, again, well documented on EBPF. Brad did a lot of "Lets see if this works" with my 2010.. I was the first tuned by Brad for Meth, the first besides his own with the boost regulator mod, and there were a lot of kinks he was working out in his own tuning methods that many are reaping the benefits of at this point. There were tunes he sent that had nothing to do with adding power but controlling power production that resulted in A LOT of "WTF happened" moments. The one where he removed ALL torque management, ended up commanding over 20psi of boost, and a slew of other "oops" in the same tune resulted in the bottom end knocking. I still have the logs. And to be quite frank SM105K you were and are still not privy to the conversations Brad and I had while we were working out the kinks. There is A LOT of information and data that I didn't post and don't feel it needs to be posted. Brad is a great guy, I still recommend him as a tuner, and still highly respect him.

What ultimately caused the injector to hang? I never had it diagnosed. I was offered a lot of money for the car on trade in. The list of codes generated were quite long but unfortunately I did not document them all as I was offloading the car. But to your point, that car was driven hard, but was always extremely well maintained.

I understand the inherit risks with tuning very well, and the risk you take asking a tuner to turn it up more. I never once asked Brad to turn it up more than he was willing, as a matter of fact, I asked him to turn it down over his objections. Also a fact is he commented on my LMS tune load stating it was pushing more than he was and to be careful as he knew I didn't want to push it that hard.

There are reasons why after that tune caused a mechanical issue, I didn't run around the forums "Brad compromised my motor!!!". And I still don't run around saying that all over the internet. What I did imply was that its foolish to make claims that a tuner has never had a compromised or nuked a motor running their tune. Every tuner has a story about a motor that went belly up under their tune, doesn't mean its the tuners fault.


This back and forth about LMS is getting stale. Is there a problem with the V11 tune? I think for a large majority of the SHO's it appears that there is. Is LMS aware? At this point, I am sure everyone at LMS is aware. Are they working on fixes? With out a doubt. Given their track record of solid EB SHO tuning since 2009 and this is the first tune that has received this much back lash, I would say that you can't be perfect all the time. Is it a reason to drag them through the mud? I think not. So far no one on this forum has posted that their SHO blew up on the V11 tune, running poorly sure, but no catastrophic failures. I have no doubt they are working on a solution and has been proven that they are sending out revisions for it.

 

[shoblock]

On cars that suffer major fuel pressure dips (when all else seems to be in line) usually lead to an O2 sensor being lazy and over-richening a bank (or both with high mileage sensors) at WOT. You can usually see what's going on at wot when you have a serious difference in long and short term fuel trims between banks. Those of you having problems on LMS V11 may just need to replace your front O2 sensors.....

Okay, point well taken. However, I had major problems with the v11 tune, and all of the problems disappeared when I loaded your AO tune. Same O2 sensors. 60,000 miles. Still loving the AO!!
Shoblock