John Deer Coolant Eye (Part No. TY16423)

[yamapowered]

so without first hand knowledge, a question about viscosity and everything learned from conventional coolant keeps you from using something different.

your right its much easier to change coolant once a year.

you keep being a skeptic and I will forge on and have excellent
results with this viscous fluid that makes my car act wierd

 

[Marccus]

You misunderstand my responses. I don't adversely judge the Evans system. I studied it once and would have to review it again. I realize the taste is in the pudding (the results speak for themselves) and not in the theory, but there are a lot of interconnected elements that I am not educated enough to judge but just can make some cursory observations.

A lot of my background is in heat transfer, especially two phase flow. The engine is designed by the automakers for single phase coolant flow. For example, Evans make the claim that nucleate boiling at the heat transfer surface is the most effective way to remove heat. This is true. If heat transfer (really heat flux) is too great, then the heat transfer enters the film boiling regime where the heat transfer surface is enveloped in vapor. This will cause an immediate reduction in the heat transfer and a rapid rise in the cylinder wall temperatures. This is bad and Evans is correct again.

But he makes a claim where he provides no evidence or data that aqueous based coolant systems cannot maintain nucleate boiling and enter the film boiling regime where his waterless based system is more effective in maintaining nucleate boiling.

I have been designing heat exchangers for refineries for twenty years and heat transfer in PWR (pressurized water reactors) and BWR (boiling water reactors) in the nuclear industry. We use very sophisticated heat transfer programs to design reboilers costing hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars to handle flows from 20 gpm to 20,000 gpm. For reboilers in refineries, etc., when we design for nucleate boiling, we know the heat exchanger WILL operate and DOES operate (from performance data) in the nucleate boiling regime and doesn't undergo film boiling. We design for all possible scenarios so film boiling doesn't occur. We inspect regularly and the computer programs have been undergoing revisions for years to ensure they accurately predict what actually happens so in turn the programs can be used to accurately design exchangers in new applications.

Engine design manufacturers do the same. They have designed the coolant systems to operate in a certain boiling regime. The engine manfactuers would never design the coolant system to undergo what Evans claims - that the aqueous systems undergo film boiling because they are more prone to this than his system.

Nothing could be further from the truth. If the engine coolant system is designed properly both systems can operate in the correct regime. The claim he makes against the aqueous sytems could be just as easily made agains his system.

If you read his theory closely, he states that his system works BEST with higher flow water pumps, etc. (Hint, Hint). In fact if you keep the same water pump and use his waterless system, because it has a much higher boiling point (+370°F) you COULD in fact run the cylinder wall at a higher temperature than it was designed for since his coolant could reach a higher temperature before nucleate boiling occurs than the aqueous sytem would with the lower boiling coolant, even at the latter's elevated pressure.

He makes the statement that the aqeuous systems start film boiling when the system overboils and overheats. Well something is wrong if this happens! Duh. The system is not designed to operate if you have extreme scaling and don't keep the coolant system clean or have leaks. Sure it will overboil. In fact, the fact that it does overboil means the temperature has reached the saturation temperature of the coolant at the maximum pressure designed into the system (the radiator cap maximum pressure) and makes you stop the car and engine at a maximum temperature that is LOWER than that which would occur in the waterless system if it had similar problems.

Boil over is a controlled fail safe mechanism that limits the maximum temperature the cylinder walls will see and makes you stop the engine. It tells you something is wrong and the system is not removing the heat that it was designed to remove.

Evans makes all positive claims for his system and makes negative claims for the aqueous system which also apply to his system if it is not designed properly or something is wrong. If something is wrong in his system, the cylinder wall temperatures will get much higher ... higher those which the engine designers design for. You may not know that the cylinder walls are seeing temperatures that are higher with the waterless system, since the coolant may still be operating below the boiling temp (+370°F).

Now if engine designers DESIGNED for the use of a waterless coolant, you could design for and evaluate the Evans system for similar scenarios he attributes only happening to the aqeuous system but may and can happen to his system.

A well designed conventional system is no worse than his system and is the correct system to use within the parameters is is designed for. It has safeguards built in to shut it down if it exceeds those design parameters.

In fact, engine designers are now looking at two phase systems for cooling where the coolant exits the heat transfer passages and dumps into the radiator reservoir in two phase flow (vapor and liquid) and vapor/liquid does not just occur at the nucleate boiling surface. This increases cooling capacity and allows the system to handle an increased heat load or you can use a smaller system for a given cooling demand.

Finally, there is one issue which you ignore (and you may be perfectly okay in ignoring) but the auto manufacturers can't ignore. If you have a coolant leak (and coolant leaks occur in coolant systems as they are now designed irrespective if they are at elevated pressures) the evans coolant is FLAMMABLE whereas water based systems are INFLAMMABLE. No one wants to drive down the road with flames shooting out from under the hood - a fire which is fed by continuous pumping of the water pump.

But hey, the proof is in the pudding. If it works and you have faith in the advantages of the system that exceed the disadvantages - go for it. Just don't knock the system the engine was designed for - there are logical reasons why it is designed a certain way that are not immediately apparent. And claims levied JUST against the aqueous system is a one-sided approach to selling a solution.

:wave:

 

[shojuan]

I might just pick up one of these Deere Eyes and install it in my 94 which is infrequently driven. The price is certainly low enough.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Finally, there is one issue which you ignore (and you may be perfectly okay in ignoring) but the auto manufacturers can't ignore. If you have a coolant leak (and coolant leaks occur in coolant systems as they are now designed irrespective if they are at elevated pressures) the evans coolant is FLAMMABLE whereas water based systems are INFLAMMABLE. No one wants to drive down the road with flames shooting out from under the hood - a fire which is fed by continuous pumping of the water pump.

Yeah, but if you didn't have to maintain your car for a couple extra years before it burned to the ground because a stone punctured the radiator and it leaked right on to the front exhaust manifold, you'll still be happy that you spent $30 a gallon on the crap!

yamapowered's apparent main reason for belonging to the forum is to push various potions on members. Last time it was Amsoil, which while I'm an Amsoil user (and NESHO is a dealer), there MLM business model sucks and causes little trolls pretending to be chemical engineers (because they can memorize sales literature) to spam forums with their "expert" opinions which are nothing more than some drivel they read somewhere else.

Marccus, thanks for the informed information!

 

[Rockledge]

Even with conventional coolant, annual flushes will keep the cooling system in good shape, certainly good enough for 99% of the SHO drivers in the world.

A coolant flush every 1-2 years will not only help rid the coolant of contaminants, but will also help keep the potential for electrolysis in check. Not a minor consideration in this day and age.

 

[Off Road SHO]

Nice discussion. But flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. If you want to say the opposite of flammable you would say non flammable.

I just change my coolant a lot, because I like doing it.

Tom

 

[Marccus]

Thank you. You're right. I should have known better. My bad!

 

[Marccus]

Yes, both ethylene and propylene glycol are flammable. They have a NFPA rating of "1" on a scale of 1 to 5. I believe "1" indicates flammable at elevated temperatures. I'd have to read up on it.

BTW, It's nice to have an intelligent discussion where people can bring up different views and agree to disagree or just have rebuttals that respect the views of others and are not antagonistic. I respect your opinions and the positive things you say about the Evans system. It definitely has advantages in some areas and I respect the reasons and logic why people, like yourself, use it. There is no wrong or right choice here,. but only preferred choices. Thanks.

 

[AREA 91]

I'm suprised knowone brought up "Water Wetter" from redline. I use it in everything.

Just my .01cent.......I spent the other.

 

[yamapowered]

yes that works too and works good in addition to regular coolant maintenance.
It didnt work for me back in 1992 when I tried it in a mustang I had,
im sure it wasnt redline that didnt work it was more or less the
combo I had with that mustang,

I went from using water only, then to some coolant, then to 70/30
mix coolant, then to prestone pet safe propleyne glycol, finally
to evans, hope I dont have to research anymore coolant products.

 

[TYSHO]

I went from using water only, then to some coolant, then to 70/30
mix coolant, then to prestone pet safe propleyne glycol, finally
to evans, hope I dont have to research anymore coolant products.

Try Kool-Aid, I heard it works real good and can seal any leak you have!