Is this true?

[gchld25]

My car was not running and I could not figure out why so I took it to the dealership. At fist they told me that the car would not start because my timing had jumped. now they are aying that the timing was off by four teeth and that it still will not start because I need a new PCM. They also told me that since my timing was off by four teeth that I have internal motor damage and they want to rip my motor apart at the tune of $1200.

I do not understand how my timing being off will cause internal motor damage, is that really a strong possibility with these motors? Thanks in advance for an help, I really feel like they are just trying to get a bunch of money, at that it took them a week to figure out what they told me.

 

[NiNeTy Fo SHO]

If you have stock cams...there is no way you could have internal damage....

The SHO motor is a non-interference engine!

Personally...I havnt changed the timing belt on mine yet due to this reason...I will change a bunch of stuff when I go in to replace something (when something does go wrong...knock on wood!), but there is no reason (in my opinion) to go in a change stuff when nothing like that could happen.

As far as the timing jumping...that I dont know about. Havnt really heard much about that ever happening.

Why dont you give explain the symtoms of y our car when you try to start it. Does the tach move at all when cranking? Does it crank? Does it try to fire?

If you ask me, I would say you have a different problem, CPS, fuel problem, etc.

Edit: C-bus eh? Not too far from here...

 

[SASHO91]

Was this ford????
:laugh_ti:
the sh** they come up with...

i dont believe if the timming was that off, it will "mess" up the the EEC....

seems to me that you need to either tell them put a new timming belt in, or take it home and do it yourself.... for ALOT cheaper....

and yes the sho motor is a non-interference engine....
i swear ford ****** me off.... :flame:


EDIT: Yeah, i forgot about that...
what is the car doing??? turning over and over?? or can you tell that it is firing?

wouldnt it backfire out the intake, if timing was off that bad??

 

[Denny]

What type of SHO are we talking about here, an MTX or ATX? Your timing could only jump if someone has installed the belt incorrectly, the belt has stretched, or if the tensioner has failed. The ATXs have a hydraulic tensioner that seems to be be a common failure item as our vehicles rack up the miles and years. As for the MTX, I've read those tensioners are pretty stable.
And no, you shouldn't have any internal damage unless you have moddified cams.

 

[Denny]

Cue NBC "Now you know" logo

...i swear ford ****** me off.... :flame:...

Hey there, easy easy, dealerships are seperate entities than Ford Motor Company. You're probably disgusted by your franchise dealership. Don't hate the company, it's not all that bad, besides, they did make us the SHO for 10 years.

 

[SASHO91]

i meant the actual mechanics that work there.....
yes, i said mechanics... most of them dont deserve the right to be called a technician.....

i was directing that to the people that try to pull this stuff... i like ford very much!!
but i like Yamaha more....

 

[Mike Kopstain]

It sounds like they misdiagnosed a problem and are now trying to cover it up by saying that there were also other problems that contributed to the engine failure. What kind of symptoms was the car experiencing?

 

[gchld25]

It is a 93 ATX.

The car was running fine then I changed the water pump and thermostat, I did not remove the timing belt to change the water pump. After I got everything back together the car would not start, it had spark and seemed to have fuel. I replaced the Crank Position Sensor and still the car would not start it cranks but does not start. I had my DIS tested and it tested fine, after that I really did not know where to go so I towed it to Ford.

I am still unsure how the timing got screwed up, as I did not touch it and it was running perfectly fine before I replaced the water pump. The last time I tried to start the car it does crank and try to fire but I can not speak to if the tac moved or not as I do not remember, Ford has had the car for a week.

 

[jelloslug]

Chances are that has to do with the CPS or an engine ground. Like everyone else has said get your car away from that dealer as fast as you can. I would even go so far as to make some complaints to whoever would listen about trying to milk you for cash.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

How did you verify that you had spark? It really sounds as if you either didn't put the belt on correctly or there is an issue with the crank or cam hall sensor. Either way, they're riding you ******* this one and they're wrong.

 

[Denny]

Did you gap the crank sensor correctly? As for not pulling the belt, how can you replace the waterpump without taking off the belt?

 

[SHOZ123]

After doing a tune up to my '93 once the car would not start. Crank and crank, spark at the plugs, fuel pressure.

Turns out the oil had washed down on the cylinders during the cleaning process and there was no compression. Took me three days but finally someone suggested flooring the gas and crank the motor continuously. It took about 1.5 minutes but the car finally started. :cuss:

 

[NiNeTy Fo SHO]

Did you gap the crank sensor correctly? As for not pulling the belt, how can you replace the waterpump without taking off the belt?

I replaced mine without taking the timinb belt off.

You only buy "half" of a water pump. Its the outside half. It contains the weep holes, the bearing, and the blades. The only thing you end up not replacing is a piece of metal that bolts it to the block IIRC.

 

[gchld25]

I believe I gapped the CPS correctly, I did not replace the pieceof the water pump that actually attaches to the block so I did not need to remove the timing belt.

Since the Crank Position Sensor and Cam Sensor are new should I go ahead and replace the PCM, I can get a remanufactured one for $137 as Ford wants $300 for the PCM and $300 to put it in? I am just really unsure where to go from here, I know I am not letting Ford touch my car anymore, I am towing back to my house today.

 

[jelloslug]

I really, really, really doubt it's the PCM unless you hooked up the battery backwards. It's most likely the following: Problem with the CPS (incorrect gap, not hooked up, broken wiring etc.), Problem with the timing belt, or a grounding problem.

 

[gchld25]

So, I got my car towed back from Ford. While I was talking to the techs I was told that they called the Ford Tech hotline and Ford told them that it was an interference engine, and that is why they say I have possibly bent valves because my timing was for teeth off at the crank. Also I was not told this but it is on the invoice that while performing test they heard poping through the intake.

How can they can hear poping through the intake if as they tell me my PCM is bad and is not sending whatever it is supposed to initiate spark? So is Ford wrong and this is an non interference engine? Were some of the SHO engines interference and some not? I am just trying to figure this all out.

 

[SASHO91]

That poping is the engine backfiring..
not good....
Check your timing, sensors, connetions,and grounds.. the problem has to lie in there...

 

[F-22 Raptor SHO]

1: Glad you got the car back.

2: No SHO with the V-6 was an interference motor. I dont care if they called Bill Ford himself, the Yamaha V-6 could snap a timing belt at 7000 rpm and those valves wont touch the pistons.

3: Back to the science of your problem: if the car ran fine before you messed with it, then its something you messed with or didnt put back together correctly that is your problem. Disregard anything and everything the dealer told you. It is obvious they are clueless, so nothing they diagnosed can be trusted. Did they take anything apart?

4: If they didnt take anything apart, then go outside after you read this message and attempt to start the car. Noting the following:

1: when you turn the key on, do you hear the fuel pump cycle for a second or two? If yes, then your fuel pump probably ok, (Verify by measuring the fuel pressue at the schrader valve on top of the motor. When the key is turned to on, your gauge should read 30 psi.

2: Attempt to crank the car for a few seconds. Is the tach resting on zero when its cranking, or has it moved up to a 1 or 2 hundred? If the tach is still at zero, the CPS is not gapped properly.

3: Do you hear any backfiring thru the intake or exhaust? That would indicate your timing is off, not much else (misplaced spark plug wires).

I would also suggest continuous cranking for a few seconds while you hold the accelerator to the floor.

What all did you take off on the top of the motor?

 

[Endri_SHO]

hey man,
as everyone says in here do not go to the stealership .. you know they wanted to do my all 60k for $ 3200 here in watertown, MASS. ( but hey i did it my self only spending $ 215 in parts) ,, anyway now on the problem you having.. i bet my money on that CPS sensor that you havent adjust it right .. the gap on that should be 0.03 in so go get a feeler gauge at autozone or something and measure the gap of that sensor right.. i hope you will get your SHO running pretty soon.. best luck to you man

endri

 

[Devin]

I'm sorry, but if I went to a shop and they had to call a hotline, I'd be right there on the phone to a tow company.

OMG MY VALVSE HAVE DENTS IN TEHM!!!!11 INTERFERENCE!!!!!111

"I'm sorry son, but we gotta file out those indentations there otherwise it'll make your spark arc into the passenger seat and **** whoever is riding with you. Oh, and you need a new clutch, heatercore and fuel tank."