Intake and tune installed, what next?

[JohnnyBravo]

I have a 2010 MKS Ecoboost and just installed the AirRaid intake and LMS Stage 4 tune.

It still feels like it need something else.

Which would be the next best mod: methanol injection or down pipe?

They're both pretty close to the same price. Presumably, the down pipe would not require any additional tuning. But which one would result in the biggest horsepower gain?

Thanks in advance.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Methanol Injection + Tune will yield considerably more HP. My system gained me around 1/2 second in 1/4 mi!

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Methanol Injection + Tune will yield considerably more HP. My system gained me around 1/2 second in 1/4 mi!

What system do you use? It appears that LMS just uses AlkyInjection components, which seem like they can be purchased cheaper by buying directly from Alky.

Is there anything special about one of the tuners' systems?

If I purchase the meth system, do I need to pay for additional tunes for my SCT? Or do the tuners give you a tune if you buy he meth kit from them?

 

[Crash712us]

LMS has always supplied methanol tunes for no extra charge, but if you by meth kit else where I'm not so sure. But please take note of what LMS supplies you with in there kit, while the kit in is cheaper buy directly from alkycontrols. But I believe there are few things that LMS puts in the kit such as bar 3 map sensor there not of the shelf parts they have been modified LMS and unleashed are the only places I know you can buy one from.

Alkycontrols has a excellent system and comes with literally everything you will need to do the install. And Julio of alkycontrols customer service rivals that of LMS.

But what ever system you go with out there you will need tune for, so as far canned tunes goes LMS has a tune for alkycontrol system.
As well I am sure unleashed does also, for the system they sell. Point being if you choose another system your going to have dyno time or some data logging.

In other words LMS tune and system are pretty much plug and play, as well as unleashed.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Crash pretty much covers it. You would have to ask LMS or Torrie about tunes for Methanol. Who did you buy your SCT Tuner from? Both will sell you their tunes separately. However, they may charge extra for or refuse to provide Methanol tunes at any price, because they don't know exactly how your W/M system is set up. They don't want to blow up your engine because of your potentially unique system. At the least, you would have to log your runs, and go back and forth to optimize the W/M system.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Crash pretty much covers it. You would have to ask LMS or Torrie about tunes for Methanol. Who did you buy your SCT Tuner from? Both will sell you their tunes separately. However, they may charge extra for or refuse to provide Methanol tunes at any price, because they don't know exactly how your W/M system is set up. They don't want to blow up your engine because of your potentially unique system. At the least, you would have to log your runs, and go back and forth to optimize the W/M system.

I ordered the Airaid intake and SCT X3 w/tunes from LMS. However, the cost of their water/meth kit ($905, not including install and tuning) just seems extremely expensive. Most kits I've used or seen used are around $500-600.

But I would need someone to provide the tune for me remotely. We have ONE guy around here who has the SCT tuning software, but he doesn't have an AWD dyno. And the one guy who has an AWD dyno doesn't tune with an SCT. So I'd have to go to the AWD dyno but I'd be on my own for tuning.

Does the SCT X3 have the ability to log runs? Or do I have to have that SCT Advantage III Ford Pro Racer software just to log?

 

[LJRuddy]

Would this happen to be the Johnny Bravo that is a lawlyer in KC? ...Mark? Is that you?


And yes, the X3 can data log. You can download Live Link here http://sctflash.com/LiveLink.php

Plug in the X3 to the car, run a USB cable from the X3 to your notebook and you can log runs live and select all the different parameters too.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

Would this happen to be the Johnny Bravo that is a lawlyer in KC? ...Mark? Is that you?


And yes, the X3 can data log. You can download Live Link here http://sctflash.com/LiveLink.php

Plug in the X3 to the car, run a USB cable from the X3 to your notebook and you can log runs live and select all the different parameters too.

LJ! Yessir. It's me. Just picked up this Tuxedo Black MKS. Put the Airaid on it, installed the LMS tune, got the windows tinted, and ordered the H&R springs (having those installed Friday night).

Now I just need to pick some new wheels and get some power out of this boat and I'll be good.

Thinking about doing the meth injection. I love it on the Viper. Just need to figure out how to tune this thing using the SCT.

 

[LJRuddy]

Nice. I want a ride!


EDIT: Rick at LMS should know a thing or two about tuning with the meth. I know he's done a few SHOs with meth all with great success. Message Mike (bpd1151) and ask the questions. He has meth and down pipes with a Livernois tune.

 

[bpd1151]

Mmmmmmm..... love me some Meth.

Just can't get enough of it

 

[jdeprato]

I just orded my kit from Torrie. It should be arriving sometime soon. I also picked up the 170 degree t-stat and will probably be doing the trans and oil cooler upgrades. Torrie mentioned that when running the methanol kits you definitely want the 3 bar map sensor and that these cars benefit from extra cooling which is why he recommends getting the upgraded radiator and t-stat change.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Just remember that 2 Bar tunes won't work with 3 Bar MAP. Torrie or Livernois can easily adapt them for 3 Bar MAP for use when you don't want to run W/M.

I was the first to test Torrie's W/M kit. If you are looking for even more performance, go to 100% Methanol, then log and get Torrie's revised tuning.
I also updated to a #10 nozzle when I was running about 75% methanol, but feel that staying with a #7 and full Methanol would be a better choice. I always primed the pump first when doing 1/4 mi runs, at the strip, or when I hadn't been driving actively enough to regularly active pump. I also installed a light that tells me when pump is running.

It is amazing how much cooling you get in MCT with spraying Methanol!

Note: The Livernois Alky Control Kit uses a #10 nozzle and recommends 100% Methanol. That kit uses a progressive controller which gradually increases spray volume. Torrie's kit uses a simple on-off boost activated switch that can be adjusted to boost psi you want to turn it on. I left mine as it came from Torrie.

 

[jdeprato]

Yeah I was aware of the need for tuning with the map sensor change and I think Torrie also mentions that same information. The kit hasn't shipped yet, but I think he is waiting for some parts to come in that are on order before sending the kit out. That's good to know the kit allows for 100% methanol. I wasn't aware of that.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Just remember that a methanol solution of over 50% is flammable. Most kit suppliers recommend staying at or below that level for safety reasons, in case a leak would develop. I got comfortable with the system for several months before I went over 50%. The key to being able to run high methanol concentrations is the pump.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

When is it necessary to use a 3 bar MAP sensor instead of the 2 bar one that comes from the factory?

If you update to the 3 bar, what happens to the effectiveness of the tunes that you had in the SCT that were designed for 2 bar?

 

[jdeprato]

You don't really need a 3 bar map until you are running boost levels that surpass the 2 bar map sensor. With the water methanol or in the LMS case pure methanl kits the 2 bar map becomes a limitation and therefore you need the 3 bar map sensor. Unless you are running water methanol or larger turbos that exceed the operating range of the 2 bar map it would not be necessary. Another next step would be to go with the 170 degree t-stat.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

When is it necessary to use a 3 bar MAP sensor instead of the 2 bar one that comes from the factory?

If you update to the 3 bar, what happens to the effectiveness of the tunes that you had in the SCT that were designed for 2 bar?

You cannot run a 2 bar tune with a 3 bar sensor. The tunes are designed around the sensor information sent to the ECM.

 

[shaker281]

If one wanted to upgrade turbos and wasn't interested in eliminating the cats or changing the exhaust just for the sake of being louder, what parts would be advisable or necessary. Not really interested in the meth injection as this is a DD, never going to the track.

I've just upgraded the brakes to Powerslots and EBC Red
Soon to replace tires with either stock Michelin AS or Conti DWS

I was thinking the parts list might look like this:

Turbo upgrade (either stock or ATP)
2 1/2" pipe w/ cats
Hot Pipes
Tuner w/ tunes
Trans cooler
Oil Cooler
Airaid Intake

Sound about right? Anything else essential or highly recommended?
Anything unnecessary (i.e. intake)?
Pros/cons of stock vs. ATP turbo upgrade?
Would a 3 bar MAP sensor be required?
Plugs? Thermostat?

What power level might that equate to? Any reason these upgrades could not be done at home with ramps/jack stands and hand tools?

 

[SHOdded]

1st 4 items on the list work well together. With the upgraded turbos (go for stage 2), you can achieve the same power levels at lower levels of boost due to much greater airflow. So even running with a 2 bar sensor, you could achieve significantly more power when tuned compared to stock turbo-tuned.

If you think your tune is going to exceed 14.7 psi (e.g., spikes), then go for the 3 bar sensor with an accommodating tune. The sensor is a good investment towards achieving more precise control of engine function.

The next 2 items, the coolers, are a fantastic idea to support the engine and powertrain, for both power and longevity. Not an absolute must-have, but if you can fit them into your budget, a highly recommended upgrade. Frequent heavy traffic situations can easily justify this upgrade, as can trips to the track.

The final item, the intake. So far, mostly a showpiece. Custom intakes are still being worked on, but the return on investment will be primarily in the looks department.

How much power can you get? A summary:

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,808

You could probably do all the work yourself, but take a look at what is involved (in general):

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/board,107.0.html

And don't forget to update your spark plugs while you are at it, 0.030 gap is preferred with a tune.

 

[Crash712us]

I am not sure how much gains could be seen just changing out turbo's only. I say this cause the more boost you make the more octane your going to need, plus need for more fuel. So just the addition of turbo's the amount performance you would get out of this would be minimal and probably not much more then what stock turbo's make. As for doing to the job at home on jack stands is entirely do able. But doing them in a shop is 12hr job as I understand.