info on cam welds

[newshofan]

I'm trying to get info on welding my cams. I have several photos and have printed off some. Info on removing surge tank and valve covers and have the diagram for the timing chain. But I need more info on the process. Ie what should I look out for etc. I have emailed both Doug and Kirk but haven't had a response yet. I believe my car has a slight ticking for sure on the back possibly the front to.
I was thinking of having someone weld them and then take it to Doug or Kirk to service the rest of the car when I have the money to do so. One question I have is how hard is it to line the sprokets correctly to time the car? I'm hoping to find a competent welder here in chattanooga soon so I'm not without a car. Any info would be great.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

You don't need to time the motor to weld the cams. If sprockets have spun, welding cams is a waste of time.

Basically you need someone who isn't going to overheat the cams/sprockets resulting in warpage/melting/etc. and who isn't going to allow spatter to get in the motor and risk getting into a bearing surface, etc.

 

[newshofan]

If the cams have started to slip slightly enough to cause the ticking. Would it still be in time then and you just have to weld it?I'm pretty sure mine haven't spun completly. The car runs pretty smooth. Minus the car is a bit touchy when you let on and off the gas at times like in overdrive at 40 it tries to run at low rpms.highway driving is great still.

I know you have to use high heat to weld and the idea is to weld one cam at a time so they don't get to hot rotate and do it again. I think if you covered most of the engine there shouldn't be much of an issue assuming they attempt to do clean welds and make sure they have the settings right before they touch the cam.

 

[SHO U UP]

You aren't confusing the ticking from the injectors as a cam issue are ya? Injectors tick as well while the car is running.

 

[newshofan]

No I don't think so. I did think about that though. But it sounds to similar to the sound clips off v8sho.com not near as loud though. It has been awhile since I ran lucas or octane booster but I did run some 93 a few weeks ago and 89 after that. I'm back to regular now. I hope to find a good welder this week.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

If the cams have started to slip slightly enough to cause the ticking. Would it still be in time then and you just have to weld it?I'm pretty sure mine haven't spun completly. The car runs pretty smooth. Minus the car is a bit touchy when you let on and off the gas at times like in overdrive at 40 it tries to run at low rpms.highway driving is great still.

I know you have to use high heat to weld and the idea is to weld one cam at a time so they don't get to hot rotate and do it again. I think if you covered most of the engine there shouldn't be much of an issue assuming they attempt to do clean welds and make sure they have the settings right before they touch the cam.

Without seeing it, it's hard to tell. This is where going to someone who has dealt with this countless times is worth the price.

The other thing to realize (and no matter how many times I explain this nobody seems to "get" it) is that in a "normal" cam weld situation, the sprockets are secured to the shaft so that the factory swages will never break free. With the factory swages intact, you have a lot of surface area where the sprocket is connected to the shaft; you're not actually relying on the welds to absorb the force of turning the camshaft. Once the swages have started to wear and allow sprocket movement on the shaft (or spin), presuming you can get the sprockets both in time and lined up on 2 axises now you're relying on the welds themselves to take the force of turning the shaft which requires a whole different approach and technique to the welds.

 

[newshofan]

See that is exactly why I would prefer to take it to Doug in Atlanta but I just don't have 850 to do it. I did just get a job at a local Ford dealer I wonder if its possible for me to get a 900 dollar loan now. I'm sure Doug or Kirk wouldn't. Let make it a payment type deal would be great but I doubt it. But this is my only car and I'm screwed if it dies on me I doubt I could sell it for enough to get a cheapo

 

[AREA 91]

See that is exactly why I would prefer to take it to Doug in Atlanta but I just don't have 850 to do it. I did just get a job at a local Ford dealer I wonder if its possible for me to get a 900 dollar loan now. I'm sure Doug or Kirk wouldn't. Let make it a payment type deal would be great but I doubt it. But this is my only car and I'm screwed if it dies on me I doubt I could sell it for enough to get a cheapo

$850-$900 for a cam weld????

That's insaine!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob Gervais]

$850-$900 for a cam weld????

That's insaine!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, no, when you consider that other things besides tearing into the motor and welding the cams is part of the operation. Not sure about Doug, but I know for a fact that Kirk includes new plugs, coil rotation, insulating the rear harness, and cleaning the intake and secondaries.

Plus, that whole issue of knowing what type of welding technique to use that Chris mentioned, the tools needed to time the cams if necessary, and the fact that someone very experienced is working on your only mode of transportation, kinda adds to the value of the service being performed.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

$850-$900 for a cam weld????

That's insaine!!!!!!!!!!

What do you charge for a full 60K on a V6 motor? Cam weld is equally, if not more labor intensive, with around $300 or so in parts/supplies, AND you have to warranty that the cam welding won't destroy their motor. Nevermind things like overhead and that all-so-scary thought: profit.

Sure, you can find someone to throw a few tacks on your cams for $50 if you do all the work for them, but what do they do when a piece of spatter lodges between a cam lobe and shim causing the shim to be ejected and the bucket, head, and camshaft to be destroyed (yes I've seen it -- more than once)? Oops? Maybe a "sorry" if you're lucky?

For the OP, if you can't put aside $$$ to maintain your car over a few paychecks, a SHO might not be the best vehicle for you. You might also want to check with the guy in STL about welding your cams. It's further away than ATL for you, but probably cheaper and superior service.

 

[newshofan]

When I talked to Doug back in probly october he said it was the same service as Kirks. As far as stl I hadn't thought about that but would it still be cheaper after I spent the gas to get there. And I normaly have enough to throw at the car here and there but since I was out of work for three months the bank hit negetive once or twice. But hoping I can get back up on my feet again I'm going to see about a loan cause I love my v8 sho. I think there a lot loss problematic than the v6. But I do miss mine. If I can get these cams welded I think ill be fine

 

[LJRuddy]

+1 for STL SHO. James welded the cams on my 96 before I bought the car. His work is solid and the most important thing (for me anyway) is shit gets put back together properly. Not to mention the STL guys are a fun group of guys to BS with.

 

[St Louis SHO]

I was taught by the best..

 

[newshofan]

Well I am convinced that I should have this done by someone who knows the car. Some people I have talked to just look at you funny when you mention camshafts sprokets and welding in the same sentence. Or just think your crazy and this guy must not know what he is talking about. But we will see I am going to try a few places and talk to some more shops and see what I come up with also talk to a bank or two if I can get the money I think ill try out Dougs shop unless a better opportunity for Kirk or Stl sho comes along too far away for gas at this price. Besides if the car is serviced by some one that knows the car they can tell me if anything else needs work.

 

[LJRuddy]

Well I am convinced that I should have this done by someone who knows the car. Some people I have talked to just look at you funny when you mention camshafts sprokets and welding in the same sentence. Or just think your crazy and this guy must not know what he is talking about. But we will see I am going to try a few places and talk to some more shops and see what I come up with also talk to a bank or two if I can get the money I think ill try out Dougs shop unless a better opportunity for Kirk or Stl sho comes along too far away for gas at this price. Besides if the car is serviced by some one that knows the car they can tell me if anything else needs work.

Just dont let him touch your fuel lines. :theyareontome:

 

[newshofan]

What do you mean by that one?

 

[LJRuddy]

Inside joke. Dont worry about it.

 

[newshofan]

Oh ok

 

[Liquid_force]

Some people I have talked to just look at you funny when you mention camshafts sprokets and welding in the same sentence. Or just think your crazy and this guy must not know what he is talking about.

That sucks.
I talked to two mechanics about mine. One had done the welds before and the other was at least aware of the problem.

Definitely less work and stress to have it done by a SHO pro.

 

[newshofan]

Much agreed. However the money tree always wins. I hope to find a solution here pretty soon. Question if my cams are going out the door could that make the car seem boggy and get crappy mileage also seems to have lack of power. No cel as of yet. Car is due for oil change but that shouldn't affect it this much also the front and rear motor mounts are getting bad but again I wouldn't think performance should be affected much or am I wrong?