Cam Phasers, Replace or Not......

[luigisho]

Techs are getting hosed on alot of jobs. If I had to percentage bet, they steer you to where the work can be done at or mostly under book time. I am hearing all manner of pay issues and losing techs at dealerships due to bad pay.

Have you thought about another dealer service shop or- localish modern ford vehicle experienced mechanic/shop? You can use oem parts wherever

 

[jrembold1120]

Techs are getting hosed on alot of jobs. If I had to percentage bet, they steer you to where the work can be done at or mostly under book time. I am hearing all manner of pay issues and losing techs at dealerships due to bad pay.

Have you thought about another dealer service shop or- localish modern ford vehicle experienced mechanic/shop? You can use oem parts wherever

I'm on my 3rd call to recommend shops (some from this forum) and so far the answer has been they want nothing to do with the job. I do have other dealership options, but I haven't gotten around to calling yet.

 

[luigisho]

See if you can get a reasonable quote from another dealer. when you talk to the service writer or mgr talk about proximity of repair for all timing components to include phasers and see if the quote comes close. THe cost will be whatever the ballpark is going to be unless you can find someone looking for work. Maybe an independent like Nick's mobile (google search). I'm just not sure if it requires Ford specific software and/or tools for the job. Thinking about a tool for holding phasers in place. I've seen phaser jobs for trucks all over the place down here for the older Triton F-150 pickups. I am not on Facebook but it might be a handy tool for searching

 

[jrembold1120]

I found another dealership, they actually answered the phone....which is more than I am getting now. Explained the entire situation and he said he would talk to the shop foreman and give me a call back, also laughed at the guidnace the other joint is giving me and said they would never not to guides and phasers. He called first thing this morning and said get it to us and we will tell you what you need, free of charge and go from there.

Already liking everything about the new place. Thanks for all the advice!!

 

[SHOCALL]

Nice.

 

[Christian]

Similar to all the work I had done last week.....phasers, chain, cam sprockets, water pump, etc. 4k dollars later, I'm confident the car will outlive me now, AND it drives like a new car all over again.

I'm fortunate that my dealer is on point with these things.

 

[luigisho]

What's funny is the experienced techs would almost beg you get it all done at the same time -parts, seals, anything that would be exposed during the process- and customers would push back to save money. That 1st dealer shop is opposite world to me. I do alot of my own work so I wonder if this is an anomaly, or if the sector has changed that much other than the technology. I know the pay for dealer techs has been getting squeezed for sure.

 

[Christian]

luigisho....YES! So true. My first visit to the dealership, I asked for a PTU and trans flush because of the info I got on this forum. Despite the "life long fluid" claims by Ford, they encouraged me to do the work and I was also fortunate that the tech was an SHO fan. He gave me similar maintenance tips to those found on this site. They've been very good to me so far.

 

[luigisho]

I found another dealership, they actually answered the phone....which is more than I am getting now. Explained the entire situation and he said he would talk to the shop foreman and give me a call back, also laughed at the guidnace the other joint is giving me and said they would never not to guides and phasers. He called first thing this morning and said get it to us and we will tell you what you need, free of charge and go from there.

Already liking everything about the new place. Thanks for all the advice!!

Post back with results and cost. Info is always good for people searching with similar issues

 

[marshallma0504]

Similar to all the work I had done last week.....phasers, chain, cam sprockets, water pump, etc. 4k dollars later, I'm confident the car will outlive me now, AND it drives like a new car all over again.

I'm fortunate that my dealer is on point with these things.

I second this. The car feels brand new after the work. I made sure to do a KAM reset as well to start over on the timing and fuel trims. Helped the trans shift smoother too. Now just need to solve the issue of the car vibrating under braking and replace the front control arms so I don’t clunk over bumps anymore.

 

[marshallma0504]

I found another dealership, they actually answered the phone....which is more than I am getting now. Explained the entire situation and he said he would talk to the shop foreman and give me a call back, also laughed at the guidnace the other joint is giving me and said they would never not to guides and phasers. He called first thing this morning and said get it to us and we will tell you what you need, free of charge and go from there.

Already liking everything about the new place. Thanks for all the advice!!

Make sure they’re going to update you to the yellow coolant if you still have the orange in your system. (It turns pink with age.) The yellow is a lot better and won’t corrode your new water pump seals. I did all the timing job myself with the engine in the car, and if you can find a shop that won’t skin you alive to do it, go for it. This is not a job you want to have done twice. I replaced every seal and gasket and every part all OEM. Going on 4k miles with no engine issues.

 

[marshallma0504]

I found another dealership, they actually answered the phone....which is more than I am getting now. Explained the entire situation and he said he would talk to the shop foreman and give me a call back, also laughed at the guidnace the other joint is giving me and said they would never not to guides and phasers. He called first thing this morning and said get it to us and we will tell you what you need, free of charge and go from there.

Already liking everything about the new place. Thanks for all the advice!!

Last thing since I didn’t see it in here, while the shop is tearing the engine apart, have them inspect the KNOCK SENSOR wiring!!! Fords design was garbage and the wiring rubs through since it’s touching the hot engine every time and will cause false knock readings and make the car run like crap. They’re buried in there hence why I would have them inspect and insulate the wiring.

 

[Christian]

Last thing since I didn’t see it in here, while the shop is tearing the engine apart, have them inspect the KNOCK SENSOR wiring!!! Fords design was garbage and the wiring rubs through since it’s touching the hot engine every time and will cause false knock readings and make the car run like crap. They’re buried in there hence why I would have them inspect and insulate the wiring.

Too bad I didn't know this before my work was done. Good info for others.

 

[jrembold1120]

Update...new dealership says nothing is wrong with the timing chains at all....both turbos $5,200.

I can keep the second guessing game going, but it would be in their best interest to tell me there is an expensive problem. Going to do both turbos and let it ride.

 

[Dewjr1985]

Morning guys. Have a 2017 taurus sho performance package at 102k miles water pump just started leaking through weep hole. So while im in there going to do phasers, sprockets chains vvt solenoid's upgrade to melling oil pump etc. I see phasers as part # AT4Z6256B/ AT4Z6C525D anyone know if these are a new version to prevent rattle. Haven't had any rattle on my car, I do utilize penzoil 5w30 ultra synthetic to help prevent issues and do my oil changes every 4k miles. Any information help thanks.

 

[kryptto]

Morning guys. Have a 2017 taurus sho performance package at 102k miles water pump just started leaking through weep hole. So while im in there going to do phasers, sprockets chains vvt solenoid's upgrade to melling oil pump etc. I see phasers as part # AT4Z6256B/ AT4Z6C525D anyone know if these are a new version to prevent rattle. Haven't had any rattle on my car, I do utilize penzoil 5w30 ultra synthetic to help prevent issues and do my oil changes every 4k miles. Any information help thanks.

Yes, AT4Z-6256-B (Intake) and AT4Z-6C525-D (Exhaust) are the latest revisions for the 2017 SHO, but they are not the completely redesigned "enclosed" phasers.

The redesigned phasers that fixed the infamous EcoBoost rattle (ML3Z parts) were made for the Gen 2 longitudinal engines (F-150s). They are mechanically incompatible and will not fit the transverse Gen 1 engine in the SHO.

The reason you haven't had the rattle is your strict 4k-mile oil change interval with Pennzoil Ultra. Gen 1 rattle is almost always caused by chain stretch and worn guides due to oil starvation at the primary tensioner, not native phaser failure. Your maintenance prevented that.

You caught the water pump at the perfect time. Seeing coolant at the weep hole means the primary seal failed, but catching it before the secondary seal breaches saves the engine from a catastrophic coolant-in-oil scenario.

Since the front cover has to come off, your plan to replace the chain, guides, tensioners, VCT solenoids, and phasers is exactly the right move.

Upgrading to the Melling high-volume oil pump (like the M390HV) while you are in there is a massive reliability upgrade. It provides superior flow to the top end and keeps the hydraulic timing chain tensioner properly pressurized, which eliminates the chance of future chain slap.

 

[Dewjr1985]

Yes, AT4Z-6256-B (Intake) and AT4Z-6C525-D (Exhaust) are the latest revisions for the 2017 SHO, but they are not the completely redesigned "enclosed" phasers.

The redesigned phasers that fixed the infamous EcoBoost rattle (ML3Z parts) were made for the Gen 2 longitudinal engines (F-150s). They are mechanically incompatible and will not fit the transverse Gen 1 engine in the SHO.

The reason you haven't had the rattle is your strict 4k-mile oil change interval with Pennzoil Ultra. Gen 1 rattle is almost always caused by chain stretch and worn guides due to oil starvation at the primary tensioner, not native phaser failure. Your maintenance prevented that.

You caught the water pump at the perfect time. Seeing coolant at the weep hole means the primary seal failed, but catching it before the secondary seal breaches saves the engine from a catastrophic coolant-in-oil scenario.

Since the front cover has to come off, your plan to replace the chain, guides, tensioners, VCT solenoids, and phasers is exactly the right move.

Upgrading to the Melling high-volume oil pump (like the M390HV) while you are in there is a massive reliability upgrade. It provides superior flow to the top end and keeps the hydraulic timing chain tensioner properly pressurized, which eliminates the chance of

Yes, AT4Z-6256-B (Intake) and AT4Z-6C525-D (Exhaust) are the latest revisions for the 2017 SHO, but they are not the completely redesigned "enclosed" phasers.

The redesigned phasers that fixed the infamous EcoBoost rattle (ML3Z parts) were made for the Gen 2 longitudinal engines (F-150s). They are mechanically incompatible and will not fit the transverse Gen 1 engine in the SHO.

The reason you haven't had the rattle is your strict 4k-mile oil change interval with Pennzoil Ultra. Gen 1 rattle is almost always caused by chain stretch and worn guides due to oil starvation at the primary tensioner, not native phaser failure. Your maintenance prevented that.

You caught the water pump at the perfect time. Seeing coolant at the weep hole means the primary seal failed, but catching it before the secondary seal breaches saves the engine from a catastrophic coolant-in-oil scenario.

Since the front cover has to come off, your plan to replace the chain, guides, tensioners, VCT solenoids, and phasers is exactly the right move.

Upgrading to the Melling high-volume oil pump (like the M390HV) while you are in there is a massive reliability upgrade. It provides superior flow to the top end and keeps the hydraulic timing chain tensioner properly pressurized, which eliminates the chance of future chain slap.

Appreciate it. Yeah taking parts tomorrow to get ceramic coated to help with heat soak the intake plenum, my eco power hotpipes and noise maker delete and the timing cover and the coolant pipe that runs under the plenum as well as the thermostat housing anything to help with heat soak. My mechanic caught the leak when I dropped off my car to have the gearhead intercooler an csf radiator to be installed. Not doing more performance upgrades till the vitals are done. Any suggestions or information from anyone is appreciated.