I managed to screw up rod bearings today

[haydenm315]

I messed up one pair of rod bearings on the first piston. The notch on the bearings is now flat because I tightened it with the bearings out of line somehow. I tried to bend the tab back, but then decided it wasn't worth the chance of really screwing something up by using them. Can I still use the ones I flattened or do I need to get new ones? It may be jack stands for me until I can order another pair of rod bearings. I can get them from napa, but it takes a week. Anybody here have an extra pair of standard rod bearings?.

All of my rod bearings were showing copper on the top ones, and wear, but not down to copper on the bottom ones. The last cylinder's bearings look distinctly different from the others in color and are both showing copper. They have dark brown streak marks. The surface is still smooth. I'll get some pictures up soon.

 

[haydenm315]

Here's a picture of my bearings. Should I be concerned about the last pair?

 

[shobikes]

Ja, it's been a long time since I've seen a set of used rod bearings, but I would call that last set "wiped". How does the crank journal look?

How many miles does your engine have on it?

Depending on the feedback you get from other members, I would definitely check your new-bearing clearances with plastigauge on that journal, anyway. The rest look worn, but OK.

 

[SHOtimer]

Yes, buy a new set to replace the one that got bent. That happened when my bearings were being replaced and when you are dealing with something as important as rod bearings I would rather be 100% sure than 99%. It is good that you replaced them now as you have copper showing you are sure going to notice a difference. I don't know enough to tell you what is up with that last set, but just my guess is that something is definetly not right. Also, no worries you didn't screw anything up that is not fully fixable, just be VERY careful when tightening the oil pickup tube back on, just snug it up nice, those threads are easily stripable. <-if that is even a word
Doug

<small>[ October 05, 2003, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: SHOtimer ]</small>

 

[haydenm315]

shobikes
[QB] Ja, it's been a long time since I've seen a set of used rod bearings, but I would call that last set "wiped". How does the crank journal look?

Although there is discoloration on the last set, it's still a smooth surface with no grooves and such. I touched the crank journal with my finger and there was a nice coating of castrol gtx on it. The surface felt smooth enough for me. I bought a plastigauge, but have never used or seen one in action before.

How many miles does your engine have on it?

supposedly 98k, but I have a receipt that says the shortblock was replaced due to some kind of engine kaboom early on in it's life. I also found a socket in my oil pan . I'm still puzzled about that.

Depending on the feedback you get from other members, I would definitely check your new-bearing clearances with plastigauge on that journal, anyway.

How do you use that thing anyways.

 

[sdpatt]

At $7.49 for a rod bearing, would you even think of installing one that had the tab bent? Those tabs keep the bearing halves from spinning around the end cap. Pretty important.

Did you learn how to properly install the bearings before you tried the next set?

That bottom bearing set shows signs of burning from high temperatures. Maybe due to lack of oil pressure to that cap.You should closely inspect the journal at that bearing.

Socket in the oil pan? You should read the active post about the tappet holder dropped in the oil pan. The socket probably found the same path: one of the four oil drain holes in the heads that open to the valve gallery.

<small>[ October 05, 2003, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: sdpatt ]</small>

 

[shobikes]

...I would definitely check your new-bearing clearances with plastigauge on that journal, anyway.

How do you use that thing anyways. [/QB][/QUOTE]

It's really pretty simple - the theory is that if you take a round piece of material and squash it flat, it's final width will be proportional to how flat it gets squashed. It's really the only way to determine clearance of an assembled journal bearing, since you obviously can't use a feeler gauge.

Put the new rod bearings in, taking care to get that tab seated in its groove. Put them together once to proper torque, to seat everything. Then disassemble it and cut a piece of plastigauge as long as the rod journal is wide. Lay the plastigauge on the bearing and reassemble it to proper torque. Disassemble again and using the gauge marks on the plastigauge package, match the width of the squashed plastigauge to the appropriate width mark, and read the clearance. It's pretty damn accurate. Plus, it will give you some practice, as you're gonna have to do everything at least three times to use it.

Based on your bearings, I would definitely check the #6, and then maybe a random one or two others, just to make sure you're within spec throughout.

...and then make damn sure you've got the caps on right, because if you don't, the bearings will flatten their own tabs as they spin with the crank on startup!

Good luck! thumb

 

[haydenm315]

sdpatt
At $7.49 for a rod bearing, would you even think of installing one that had the tab bent? Those tabs keep the bearing halves from spinning around the end cap. Pretty important.

That's what I figured. I'm gonna order another set and go with my first instinct.

Did you learn how to properly install the bearings before you tried the next set?

I only messed one set up. When installing the top bearing, you slide the end without the tab into the side where the tab is supposed to fit. When it slides in, it's aligned with the tab. The bottom bearings should be pushed in the caps with the hole and tab aligned, and then installed.

That bottom bearing set shows signs of burning from high temperatures. Maybe due to lack of oil pressure to that cap.You should closely inspect the journal at that bearing.

During inspection what am I looking for? Grooves and signs of damage on the crankshaft? Foreign objects plugging up the oil hole?

Socket in the oil pan? You should read the active post about the tappet holder dropped in the oil pan. The socket probably found the same path: one of the four oil drain holes in the heads that
open to the valve gallery.

I did end up missing one of the holes with a plug initially, but I thought I did a good job of plugging it up. Apparantly not. And this is why tools should not be kept in good order and not strewn all over the car. Apparantly because of that shield and the way the oil pickup works with the strainer, anything at the bottom of the pan shouldn't cause problems.

 

[haydenm315]

shobikes
It's really pretty simple - the theory is that if you take a round piece of material and squash it flat, it's final width will be proportional to how flat it gets squashed. It's really the only way to determine clearance of an assembled journal bearing, since you obviously can't use a feeler gauge.

Put the new rod bearings in, taking care to get that tab seated in its groove. Put them together once to proper torque, to seat everything. Then disassemble it and cut a piece of plastigauge as long as the rod journal is wide. Lay the plastigauge on the bearing and reassemble it to proper torque. Disassemble again and using the gauge marks on the plastigauge package, match the width of the squashed plastigauge to the appropriate width mark, and read the clearance. It's pretty damn accurate. Plus, it will give you some practice, as you're gonna have to do everything at least three times to use it.

That makes sense. Thanks a lot man. I had no clue what the **** to do with that thing.

Based on your bearings, I would definitely check the #6, and then maybe a random one or two others, just to make sure you're within spec throughout.

I might as well check all 6.

...and then make damn sure you've got the caps on right, because if you don't, the bearings will flatten their own tabs as they spin with the crank on startup!

They all have labels on one side that I made sure to line up.

Good luck! thumb

Thanks man.

 

[haydenm315]

I received new bearings today, but was too tired to put them in. I cut an oil pickup gasket out of Rubber Fiber Gasket Material. After all these years, I finally learned the value of aircraft snips and their mobility when it comes to circles and such. Somebody please chime in if I need to use some special material for this gasket. There wasn't any rtv on it initially. I'm assuming it should stay that way when I put it back together.

 

[sdpatt]

I cut an oil pickup gasket out of Rubber Fiber Gasket Material

You must use an oil resistant gasket material for that gasket. Rubber is not usually an oil resistant material unless it is specifically stated to be so.

 

[haydenm315]

sdpatt:

I cut an oil pickup gasket out of Rubber Fiber Gasket Material

You must use an oil resistant gasket material for that gasket. Rubber is not usually an oil resistant material unless it is specifically stated to be so.

THe gasket is labeled as being a rubber fiber material and is made by a company labeled Engine Seal Gaskets. At the bottom it also says a division of Fel-Pro Incorporated. Most of the seals I've seen so far on the sho are made from rubber and springs. It says for use for many automotive, industrial, and household applications but that they aren't liable for incidental or consequential damages. What material are you suggesting I use?

 

[drivinhard]

Just use the correct gasket, you can get it in the fel-pro kit for like $16.99 from AZ

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

isnt the gasket a paper gasket anyways??

 

[Bizzy]

yeah it is a paper gasket just like the same paper that my new felpro intake runner gaskets are made of.

 

[haydenm315]

drivinhard:
Just use the correct gasket, you can get it in the fel-pro kit for like $16.99 from AZ

Which kit for sure is it in? I think I remember reading something about a timing gasket kit. I don't need the others, but I guess it can't hurt.

 

[haydenm315]

NotSoSlowSHO:
isnt the gasket a paper gasket anyways??

Yeah, but it's a lot thinner, stiffer, and more compressed than the gasket material I've seen.

 

[shojuan]

sdpatt:

I cut an oil pickup gasket out of Rubber Fiber Gasket Material

You must use an oil resistant gasket material for that gasket. Rubber is not usually an oil resistant material unless it is specifically stated to be so.

There are so many different types of rubber out there, I really think you're scaring the boy with that kind of blanket statement. The felpro rubber-fiber gasket material probably uses a nitrile rubber binder which would be oil resistant. Lol, it's probably the same gasket material that you bought. Anyways I doubt Hayden will have any problems using that stuff. One nice thing about that rubber-fiber gasket material is that it has excellent torque retaining abilities.

 

[haydenm315]

shojuan:

sdpatt:

I cut an oil pickup gasket out of Rubber Fiber Gasket Material

You must use an oil resistant gasket material for that gasket. Rubber is not usually an oil resistant material unless it is specifically stated to be so.

There are so many different types of rubber out there, I really think you're scaring the boy with that kind of blanket statement. The felpro rubber-fiber gasket material probably uses a nitrile rubber binder which would be oil resistant. Lol, it's probably the same gasket material that you bought. Anyways I doubt Hayden will have any problems using that stuff. One nice thing about that rubber-fiber gasket material is that it has excellent torque retaining abilities.

Scaring the boy is right. I cut a very sexy gasket that I'm proud of. If the material is for automotive and industrial use, I think it should be able to withstand some oil. sdpatt has a point to go with a premade felpro gasket, but the fiber rubber gasket should do just fine like you said. How would I know if the gasket was failing and not sufficient? Poor oil pressure on my gauge?

I'm confident with all of my bearings and gave them all one final torque check. I started cleaning off the surface of the block and am about to give the oil pan a good cleanup. The baby still needs to be fed with advice on do's and don'ts when it it comes to sealing the pan back up to the block. The pan has grooves that I'm pretty sure are for rtv. Are there specific spots I should put the rtv or just go hog wild all the way around?

<small>[ October 08, 2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: haydenm315 ]</small>

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

for reference:

You are supposed to put a small bead of rtv on the entire length of both sides of the pan (top and bottom in the pic). do not apply any on the ends, where the oil pan seals go (left and right in the pic).

do not overdue the rtv. too much, and the rtv will squish into the bottom end of the motor, with a possibility of getting washed away, and sucked into the oiling system. That is BAD!

IIRC, the bead of rtv should be something like 4-5mm in diameter. thumb