How to identify the source of a misfire

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bertman7807

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Hey guys and gals. I replaced the injectors on my 2010 recently. Had mifires on the whole front bank. The Y pipe from my fuel pump was clogged on the front rail. I installed a brand new one. Now I show a misfire code on cylinder 2. I did the usual coil swap and plug replacement but it stays there. Is there any way I can determine if its fuel or spark causing my issue? I dont know how to verify signal at the coil or injector. Will a program like ForScan be able to give me an indication?
 

kryptto

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Use FORScan first, not more parts:


on the SHO, cyl 2 is the rear bank middle. Use FORScan Mode $06 to confirm the miss on #2, then run power balance/relative compression. If compression looks fine, swap injector #2 with #4—if the miss follows, it’s fuel/injector; if it stays, look at wiring/PCM driver or mechanical. Given you had a clogged Y-pipe earlier, debris in the rail/injector is very possible. Avoid generic noid-light tests on GDI; use scan data and swaps (or a scope) instead. Also recheck boots for carbon tracking and do a quick harness wiggle test while watching misfire counts.
 

luigisho

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^^ this is really good advice. Do you have FORSCAN? I am getting it for my truck soon with a laptop I retired and will only be used for that purpose.
 

SHOrod

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I'm not challenging the rationale, just trying to understand/learn. If the Mode $06 data confirms a misfire on cylinder #2, wouldn't running a cylinder balance test just confirm that the remaining 5 cylinders are contributing relatively equally, but not really confirm whether or not there's an issue with cylinder #2? Maybe that was the intent - to confirm there's not a more serious issue with the rest of the engine besides just cylinder 2.

My reason for asking is I thought the balance test turns off the injector to one cylinder at a time and monitors for the drop in engine RPM and expects to see a relatively equal drop in engine speed to indicate that all cylinders are contributing essentially the same amount. If cylinder #2 is missing, for the other 5 cylinder tests there will be 2 cylinders that are not contributing, but you won't really be able to gauge if cylinder #2 is contributing the same amount as the others. What am I missing (sorry for the bad pun)?

-Rod
 

kryptto

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I'm not challenging the rationale, just trying to understand/learn. If the Mode $06 data confirms a misfire on cylinder #2, wouldn't running a cylinder balance test just confirm that the remaining 5 cylinders are contributing relatively equally, but not really confirm whether or not there's an issue with cylinder #2? Maybe that was the intent - to confirm there's not a more serious issue with the rest of the engine besides just cylinder 2.
Ah that’s actually a really good question, and you’re not missing much. You’re right that a traditional cylinder balance test (as done by FORScan) just proves that each other cylinder contributes roughly equally. It doesn’t “wake up” a dead cylinder it just shows what happens when you purposely cut fuel/spark to the good ones.
Mode $06 reports misfire counts per cylinder. If #2 shows a high count while the others are near zero, that already confirms:

The PCM’s based misfire monitor sees #2 slow the crank more than expected.
The miss is repeatable and not random across multiple cylinders.

So Mode $06 is your first proof of yes, it really is cylinder 2.

I would think of it like layers:

Mode $06: Shows which cylinder is counting misfires.
Power Balance: Shows how much each cylinder contributes, relative to its neighbors.
Contribution Cut-Out (Balance): Confirms that killing a good cylinder drops RPM, but killing the dead cylinder has no effect or proof that #2 was already dead.
So yes, your understanding is right, it’s not magic that diagnoses the cause of #2’s issue, but it does validate that #2 is the only real problem and the rest of the motor is happy.
 

bertman7807

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That is a very detailed answer. I do have Forscan but I'm not familiar with the $06 mode. I'll research that. I appreciate the input and I'll report my findings.
 

6500rpm

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So are you saying you have a p0302 dtc? Any other codes? The reason I ask is that other codes may lead you in the direction of an open, short to ground in the injector or coil circuits. If no other codes set, I'd go back to basics and pull the coil and sparkplug from #2 and whatever other cylinder is easy to get to. Look at the plug for anything unusual compared to the good cylinder (wet or carbon fouled). If it looks good, do a quick and dirty compression test on both cylinders and look for any significant difference. Last, swap the good plug and coil to cylinder #2 and #2 plug and coil to the easy hole and see if the misfire follows the coil and plug. If the compression was good and it' still misfires on #2 the injector is suspect unless you had another code pointing to the injector or coil circuit.
 

bertman7807

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I put a new plug in number 2 and moved the coil from 2 to 6. The misfire stayed. My original issue was number 2 injector stuck open. My oil was very washed. After I changed all the injectors I got codes for 4 5 6 misfire. That was due to the blocked Y fuel line. I get no codes now other than the misfire on number 2. Given they are new injectors and I changed the coil and plug I am a little hesitant to just assume anything at this point. Maybe ForScan will shed some light on things. I genuinely appreciate the input from you all. I gladly welcome any other thoughts or advice.
 

6500rpm

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Do a compression test on cylinder 2 and a few others. If it's significantly lower, put some oil in the #2 hole and retest. If the injector was stuck open it's possible that you washed out the rings and they're not sealing. If you haven't, change your oil.

Edit-also you said the Y fuel line was blocked. Blocked with what???
 
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bertman7807

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I honestly dont know. The long side was fine. I could blow air through it easily. The short side made odd noise and had low flow. It lined up with the 4 5 and 6 miss I had initially. I tried to unclog to no avail. Found a new OEM for 10 bucks on Ebay so I went that route. The miss on the front bank went away but the number 2 shows now.
 

SHOdded

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on the early gtdi shos, gasket leaks were problematic, causing misfires. if you see oil on the plug, change the plug well gaskets and vc gasket. and yes, bank 1 is where it would happen.

might as well change the pcv assembly while at it.
 

BradM

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Did you ever pull the intake and clean the intake/back of valves? Excessive carbon build-up can cause misfires and is a well known issue with Gen1 Ecoboosts.
 

autoteleology

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This sounds VERY similar to the failing PCM issue I had on my own 2010 car. I didn't put the entire history of this issue on my thread, but it started almost exactly like this.

 

6500rpm

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@SHOdded , the condition you're referring to should show oil around the outside of the plug and coil pack boot correct?

Another simple and cheap test provided you have a path to #2 injector is an inexpensive automotive stethoscope. Engine running at idle, touching the wand to the injector you should hear uniform clicking as it opens and closes. That doesn't rule out that it could very well be clogged, but it will tell you that electrically it's getting the power and ground to open and close..same as plugging a noid light onto the connector, but it also rules out shorted windings etc in the injector itself. Going back to my other post, in real life I've seen an injector shorted open wash out the rings killing compression. Simply pouring a little oil in the cylinder and cranking allowed the rings to re seat and return to normal and you did say it flooded the cylinder to the point it fuel diluted the oil.
 

SHOdded

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@SHOdded , the condition you're referring to should show oil around the outside of the plug and coil pack boot correct?
although i don't recall it being specifically mentioned in the relevant posts, yes it should. but pulling coils and plugs would be the verification.
 

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