Ok so I took a atx swaped the trany made it in to a mtx tricked the comp. did all that rewiring only one problem. Fires up fine hit running temp and it would slowly die so checked for leakes didnt find any. Put new IAC in didnt help changed TPS well now its not dieing it starts and runs fine till I go to or past 2K then it gets stuck and 2K any ideas?
help me!
- Thread starter stensg
- Start date
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Bizzy
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Codes? That's your very first step to getting this figured out.
Bizzy
SHO Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2001
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Well, you need to give more details about your swap. What harness did you use, how did you "trick" the computer, what computer you have in the car, what letter IRCM you have in the car, etc. etc. Does the CE light come on? If it does you need to re-read the codes and list them here.
With so little to go on it's hard to point you in the right direction. You could go change out tons of parts spending vast amounts of money, all at the cost of a possible wiring issue or loose connection. See where I'm going? I'm also having a hard time deciphering what you're saying. I'm not the "punctuation police", but a little does go a long way. I'm old and my brain doesn't compute like it used to.
With so little to go on it's hard to point you in the right direction. You could go change out tons of parts spending vast amounts of money, all at the cost of a possible wiring issue or loose connection. See where I'm going? I'm also having a hard time deciphering what you're saying. I'm not the "punctuation police", but a little does go a long way. I'm old and my brain doesn't compute like it used to.
93rev2sev
SHO Member
Is everything back together? You have the intake track all buttoned up?
Bizzy
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I think he does still have the ATX computer, he mentioned in his first post that he "tricked" the computer. Exactly what he did to accomplish that I have no clue.
whiteman_01
Well-Known Member
Ok guys. I have talked to chris a few times on this. He has a 93 atx that he put an mtx into. He used all of the atx accessories, and the atx computer.
By "tricking" the computer, you have to make it think it is in park, and drive at the same time. Park so you can start the car, and drive so you don't have the 4k rev limiter.
I believe that everything on the car is ATX, with the exception if the MTX trans, if that helps anything. I also have the write-up on how to trick the computer if you would like to see it.
By "tricking" the computer, you have to make it think it is in park, and drive at the same time. Park so you can start the car, and drive so you don't have the 4k rev limiter.
I believe that everything on the car is ATX, with the exception if the MTX trans, if that helps anything. I also have the write-up on how to trick the computer if you would like to see it.
Last edited:
Phoenix
SHOHOLIC
My swap is identical to yours , and my problem is the same as well.
I tricked the idle with the tweecer to avoid stalling on first start , but as soon as I touch the gas pedal , then the idle is stuck to 2k RPM.
My plan is to swap my MTX harness-ECU-CCRM back in it , this is getting annoying. But if you find out what's the problem , let me know...
Bizzy
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Well, I think that'll be an important thing to see. Perhaps it might hold a key to the problem. If you want to send it to me via email (assuming it's a document) I will host it on the forum server for people to download and view. I use gmail so you could send it to my shobizzy account if you like. (I'm sure you can figure out what the address is by my clues. I won't post it openly.)
He'll need to check all the wiring connections, there are two in particular that are the same color and shape that are really close together. Maybe he crossed the two? I don't know what else to suggest with the little bits info that's been given.
Phoenix
SHOHOLIC
heres the write up keep in mind i used the 3.2 heads and accesores i modified the hanger berring barket fron the mtx to work with the setup
I’ve always wanted a 5-speed SHO, but my ’93 ATX has deep sentimental value and is in great condition. And I certainly can’t afford to be fixing/modding two SHOs, so what to do? Take a rusted-body $150 MTX SHO, $3k in new/used parts, and several long days to realize that dream!
1993 Taurus SHO 3.2L ATX – 116k miles (original transmission)
Before he passed away two years ago, my younger brother poured his heart and soul into this car.
No way could I ever get rid of his baby.. so lets make it faster instead (he woulda loved this).
1990 Taurus SHO 3.0L MTX – 160k miles (mechanically sound, body = New York hard life)
Purchased for $150 from my buddy, AP. I was disturbed by how much quicker it was than the ATX.
I kept telling myself it was the corrosion lightening mods that made it faster.
The basic plan was to drop the entire engine, transmission, front suspension and subframe assembly from each car, swap the necessary components, and reinstall back into the ’93. “Dropping” the subframe is actually a misnomer since we used a two-post car lift to raise the body off the subframe, which was supported on four jackstands:
Dropping the entire assembly in this way took about 4 hours, mainly spent trying to remove the corroded subframe bolts.
Here’s a shot of some of the parts I stripped from the MTX that would be needed later.
Of all the issues I faced, the one that held the greatest potential for disaster is not keeping track of inventory. I took the extra time early on to make my life easier when putting things back together by using several sizes of labeled Ziploc bags to keep track of each part and the fasteners associated with it.
The following is a list of all the parts I took from the MTX donor. Generally, I also used the fasteners from the 3.0L unless there was a matching fastener from the 3.2, which weren’t as corroded. All of the parts on the list are unique to the MTX and are needed to do the swap the way I did (double belt accessories, 3.0L timing), but some should be purchased new when possible for obvious reasons.
Parts needed from the 3.0L MTX
• Subframe
• Transmission
• Flywheel (or get a new one)
• Clutch and throw out bearing (bought a Clutchmasters Stage-1 kit)
• Pressure plate to flywheel bolts (not usually included in a clutch kit)
• Flywheel to crankshaft bolts (longer than the ATX bolts)
• Y-pipe
• Brake pedal and clutch pedal assembly
• Clutch cable
• Rod shifter (got one off of Ebay)
• Bent resonator pipe (bought a new one)
• Exhaust spring kit (bought new)
• Exhaust manifolds w/ heat shields
• Front and rear engine mounts
• Transmission mount
• Torque limiters and brackets (the little black shocks between the engine and the strut towers).
• Brackets connecting engine mounts to block
• Stub axle shaft w/ bearing
• Crank pulley
• Alternator and brackets
• PS Pump pulley (I used the lower mileage ’93 PS pump)
• Water pump pulley (bought reman 3.0L pump, used 3.2L rear half)
• Water pump inlet pipe
• Accessory tensioner pulleys and brackets
• Timing belt covers (plastic and metal)
• Timing belt tensioner
• Lifting eye on front of motor
• MTX lower speedo cable
• Intake hose (from MAF to TB)
• Crossover tube from 3.0L intake (needed to clear 3.0L timing cover)
• Heater hoses (bought new)
• Radiator hoses (bought new)
• All power steering hoses (bought new, except for the reservoir to pump hose)
Notes:
• I used the 3.2L wiring harness and 3.2L computer (D4U1). It works great, but I need to disconnect the CEL and O/D lights that are constantly flashing since the PCM can’t find the ATX tranny or the EGR system. Also you need to trick the computer into running correctly (more on that later).
• I used the MTX y-pipe with the 3.2L ATX oil pan, and had no fitment problems except one of the transmission bolt holes doesn’t line up. There are seven more (larger) bolts holding the transmission to the engine, so I figured it wasn’t worth taking the pan off just for one bolt.
• I deleted the A/C, so I don’t know if the MTX compressor is necessary.
• I’m still running 3.2L intake cams. The available 3.0L had scored journals.
• I used the 3.2L rear half of the water pump. If I did it again, I’d use the 3.0L rear half. They’re slightly different and the 3.2L part interferes slightly with the 3.0L middle timing belt cover.
I wanted to take a bunch of pictures of the reinstallation process, but as luck would have it my camera batteries died so photos are very limited.
After dropping the subframe assembly from the ’93 in the same manner as the ’90, I separated the 3.2L engine from the transmission and removed the torque converter from the crankshaft. It was then time to install the shiny new Fidanza 9lb flywheel, which I opted to have blanchard ground at a local shop to reduce the chances that it would chatter.
The manufacturing tolerances on the aluminum flywheel are such that the diameter that pilots on the crankshaft is a little tight and won’t slide right on. It has to be this way to prevent it from coming loose when the motor comes up to temperature. For installation, I thought I’d try heating it up a little to loosen the interference fit, but that didn’t make much difference. I ended up using the crank bolts to draw the FW onto the crankshaft, making sure to tighten slowly in an alternating star pattern, which seated the FW nicely.
3.2L motor with the Fidanza FW and Clutchmasters Stage 1 clutch.
When installing the locating dowels into the aluminum flywheel, be sure to use the set of three holes that’s closest to the outside edge, as the inner set of holes does not match up with the later model pressure plates (9.75” clutch). I had to grind about 1/16” off the end of the dowel pins to allow the PP to fully seat on the FW.
3.2L oil pump modification to provide timing belt cover seal
The edge on the 3.2L oil pump that seals against the lower timing belt cover doesn’t extend as far as on the 3.0L oil pump. I wanted to retain the 3.2L oil pump since it may put out a little higher flow, and I didn’t have a new gasket at the time. To seal up the big hole between the pump and the timing cover, I cut a chunk off the 3.0L pump and JB welded it into place (circled in green). If the adhesive fails and the chunk rotates over, the tensioner will keep it out of the timing belt.
Also note on the far right in the picture above, the inlet spout on the water pump is from the 3.0L engine. The red circle indicates the protrusion from the inner half of the 3.2L water pump that interferes with the middle 3.0L timing cover. I ground it down with the Dremel, but it would have just been easier to use the whole pump from the 3.0L in the first place.
“Tricking” the 3.2L PCM
As several others are running 3.2L computers with manual transmissions (Shoaz, OffroadSHO), I thought I’d give that a shot since I didn’t feel like messing around with any more wires than necessary. The main hurdle to this approach is tricking the PCM to think the transmission is simultaneously in “Drive” and “Park” to allow starting and drivability. The ATX needs to be in either “P” or “N” to enable the starter, but needs to be in “D” to disable the 4k RPM rev limiter that protects the torque converter when in “P” or “N”. Actually, this turned out to be pretty easy, with some pointers from Shoaz.
The ATX tells its PCM what gear is selected using the Manual Lever Position (MLP) sensor. The MLP is located on the selector shaft on the top driver’s side of the ATX tranny. The following picture shows the MLP sensor split open to reveal the connections that must be made. Not shown is the wiper arm that rotates as the shifter is moved to make and break the various contacts.
The white half of the sensor controls the starter enable and the reverse lamp circuits. I soldered a pair of wires on the respective contacts and ran the backup light wires to the reverse switch on top of the MTX. The starter enable wires went through the firewall (I ran them with the clutch cable) and connected to the clutch interlock switch, so that the starter is enabled when the clutch is depressed as in a stock MTX.
The black half of the sensor contains the circuit that tells the PCM what gear it’s in. By shorting the contacts as shown, the PCM will think it’s always in Drive and override the 4k RPM rev limit. Fortunately, the white and black halves of the sensor act independently, so it doesn’t care that one half is commanding “P” and the other is commanding “D”.
The other green jumper on the black half isn’t necessary, that has to do with disabling the rear liftgate on the station wagon model when its out of “P”. As a side note, those with the ATX have probably noticed that the park brake automatically releases when shifting out of Park. That functionality is provided by a vacuum switch built into the shifter handle mechanism and has nothing to do with the MLP sensor. When I removed the shifter handle, I removed the vacuum valve and zip-tied it into the “P” position, so the park brake always engages. For safety’s sake, I’m going to cut and cap the vacuum line going to the parking brake solenoid to prevent any freak PB release events.
Along with my two invaluable assistants (thanks Dad and Bongo!), this photo shows the MTX transmission bolted up to the 3.2L engine, and the assembly fastened to the MTX subframe using the MTX motor and tranny mounts. Repositioning the subframe under the car was a breeze using two cheap furniture dollies from the hardware store.
Some other notes:
All the suspension components and subframe were painted with a rust preventative coating called POR-15, which is as tough as nails and is extremely effective.
The 3.0L accessories bolted right up to the 3.2L block, with the exception of the alternator, which required a small chunk be cut out of the front head to provide clearance. I used a Dremel and a hacksaw, which worked pretty well.
The A/C system was completely deleted for weight purposes, as well as saving that potential headache. I used the 3.2L radiator and fans, with 3.0L radiator hoses.
While the motor was out, I routed the clutch cable through the firewall. There’s a rubber plug that has a small vacuum line going through the hole where the cable needs to go. I popped the plug out and have the clutch cable running alongside the hose, along with the clutch interlock / starter enable wires (in a loom). I filled up the remaining hole with some black RTV sealant. In retrospect I think that vacuum line operates the park brake release, so perhaps I should have just cut it to get it out of the way.
The rod shifter was installed using the standard procedure. This one was a nice clean one from a Cali car. The stock MTX y-pipe easily clears the 3.2L oil pan, but I did have to swap the O2 sensors over from the ATX pipe since the ones in the MTX pipe were only 3-wire sensors and the electrical connectors wouldn’t mate up.
This photo shows the ATX exhaust system with the resonator removed. The resonator is longer than the MTX bent resonator pipe that is replacing it, so a patch piece is needed, as illustrated in the following picture.
The patch pipe we used measured 2.25” inner diameter by about 5” long. It slipped perfectly over both of the mating parts.
The MTX y-pipe easily clears the 3.2L oil pan, although the hanger is not utilized in this configuration.
I’ve always wanted a 5-speed SHO, but my ’93 ATX has deep sentimental value and is in great condition. And I certainly can’t afford to be fixing/modding two SHOs, so what to do? Take a rusted-body $150 MTX SHO, $3k in new/used parts, and several long days to realize that dream!
1993 Taurus SHO 3.2L ATX – 116k miles (original transmission)
Before he passed away two years ago, my younger brother poured his heart and soul into this car.
No way could I ever get rid of his baby.. so lets make it faster instead (he woulda loved this).
1990 Taurus SHO 3.0L MTX – 160k miles (mechanically sound, body = New York hard life)
Purchased for $150 from my buddy, AP. I was disturbed by how much quicker it was than the ATX.
I kept telling myself it was the corrosion lightening mods that made it faster.
The basic plan was to drop the entire engine, transmission, front suspension and subframe assembly from each car, swap the necessary components, and reinstall back into the ’93. “Dropping” the subframe is actually a misnomer since we used a two-post car lift to raise the body off the subframe, which was supported on four jackstands:
Dropping the entire assembly in this way took about 4 hours, mainly spent trying to remove the corroded subframe bolts.
Here’s a shot of some of the parts I stripped from the MTX that would be needed later.
Of all the issues I faced, the one that held the greatest potential for disaster is not keeping track of inventory. I took the extra time early on to make my life easier when putting things back together by using several sizes of labeled Ziploc bags to keep track of each part and the fasteners associated with it.
The following is a list of all the parts I took from the MTX donor. Generally, I also used the fasteners from the 3.0L unless there was a matching fastener from the 3.2, which weren’t as corroded. All of the parts on the list are unique to the MTX and are needed to do the swap the way I did (double belt accessories, 3.0L timing), but some should be purchased new when possible for obvious reasons.
Parts needed from the 3.0L MTX
• Subframe
• Transmission
• Flywheel (or get a new one)
• Clutch and throw out bearing (bought a Clutchmasters Stage-1 kit)
• Pressure plate to flywheel bolts (not usually included in a clutch kit)
• Flywheel to crankshaft bolts (longer than the ATX bolts)
• Y-pipe
• Brake pedal and clutch pedal assembly
• Clutch cable
• Rod shifter (got one off of Ebay)
• Bent resonator pipe (bought a new one)
• Exhaust spring kit (bought new)
• Exhaust manifolds w/ heat shields
• Front and rear engine mounts
• Transmission mount
• Torque limiters and brackets (the little black shocks between the engine and the strut towers).
• Brackets connecting engine mounts to block
• Stub axle shaft w/ bearing
• Crank pulley
• Alternator and brackets
• PS Pump pulley (I used the lower mileage ’93 PS pump)
• Water pump pulley (bought reman 3.0L pump, used 3.2L rear half)
• Water pump inlet pipe
• Accessory tensioner pulleys and brackets
• Timing belt covers (plastic and metal)
• Timing belt tensioner
• Lifting eye on front of motor
• MTX lower speedo cable
• Intake hose (from MAF to TB)
• Crossover tube from 3.0L intake (needed to clear 3.0L timing cover)
• Heater hoses (bought new)
• Radiator hoses (bought new)
• All power steering hoses (bought new, except for the reservoir to pump hose)
Notes:
• I used the 3.2L wiring harness and 3.2L computer (D4U1). It works great, but I need to disconnect the CEL and O/D lights that are constantly flashing since the PCM can’t find the ATX tranny or the EGR system. Also you need to trick the computer into running correctly (more on that later).
• I used the MTX y-pipe with the 3.2L ATX oil pan, and had no fitment problems except one of the transmission bolt holes doesn’t line up. There are seven more (larger) bolts holding the transmission to the engine, so I figured it wasn’t worth taking the pan off just for one bolt.
• I deleted the A/C, so I don’t know if the MTX compressor is necessary.
• I’m still running 3.2L intake cams. The available 3.0L had scored journals.
• I used the 3.2L rear half of the water pump. If I did it again, I’d use the 3.0L rear half. They’re slightly different and the 3.2L part interferes slightly with the 3.0L middle timing belt cover.
I wanted to take a bunch of pictures of the reinstallation process, but as luck would have it my camera batteries died so photos are very limited.
After dropping the subframe assembly from the ’93 in the same manner as the ’90, I separated the 3.2L engine from the transmission and removed the torque converter from the crankshaft. It was then time to install the shiny new Fidanza 9lb flywheel, which I opted to have blanchard ground at a local shop to reduce the chances that it would chatter.
The manufacturing tolerances on the aluminum flywheel are such that the diameter that pilots on the crankshaft is a little tight and won’t slide right on. It has to be this way to prevent it from coming loose when the motor comes up to temperature. For installation, I thought I’d try heating it up a little to loosen the interference fit, but that didn’t make much difference. I ended up using the crank bolts to draw the FW onto the crankshaft, making sure to tighten slowly in an alternating star pattern, which seated the FW nicely.
3.2L motor with the Fidanza FW and Clutchmasters Stage 1 clutch.
When installing the locating dowels into the aluminum flywheel, be sure to use the set of three holes that’s closest to the outside edge, as the inner set of holes does not match up with the later model pressure plates (9.75” clutch). I had to grind about 1/16” off the end of the dowel pins to allow the PP to fully seat on the FW.
3.2L oil pump modification to provide timing belt cover seal
The edge on the 3.2L oil pump that seals against the lower timing belt cover doesn’t extend as far as on the 3.0L oil pump. I wanted to retain the 3.2L oil pump since it may put out a little higher flow, and I didn’t have a new gasket at the time. To seal up the big hole between the pump and the timing cover, I cut a chunk off the 3.0L pump and JB welded it into place (circled in green). If the adhesive fails and the chunk rotates over, the tensioner will keep it out of the timing belt.
Also note on the far right in the picture above, the inlet spout on the water pump is from the 3.0L engine. The red circle indicates the protrusion from the inner half of the 3.2L water pump that interferes with the middle 3.0L timing cover. I ground it down with the Dremel, but it would have just been easier to use the whole pump from the 3.0L in the first place.
“Tricking” the 3.2L PCM
As several others are running 3.2L computers with manual transmissions (Shoaz, OffroadSHO), I thought I’d give that a shot since I didn’t feel like messing around with any more wires than necessary. The main hurdle to this approach is tricking the PCM to think the transmission is simultaneously in “Drive” and “Park” to allow starting and drivability. The ATX needs to be in either “P” or “N” to enable the starter, but needs to be in “D” to disable the 4k RPM rev limiter that protects the torque converter when in “P” or “N”. Actually, this turned out to be pretty easy, with some pointers from Shoaz.
The ATX tells its PCM what gear is selected using the Manual Lever Position (MLP) sensor. The MLP is located on the selector shaft on the top driver’s side of the ATX tranny. The following picture shows the MLP sensor split open to reveal the connections that must be made. Not shown is the wiper arm that rotates as the shifter is moved to make and break the various contacts.
The white half of the sensor controls the starter enable and the reverse lamp circuits. I soldered a pair of wires on the respective contacts and ran the backup light wires to the reverse switch on top of the MTX. The starter enable wires went through the firewall (I ran them with the clutch cable) and connected to the clutch interlock switch, so that the starter is enabled when the clutch is depressed as in a stock MTX.
The black half of the sensor contains the circuit that tells the PCM what gear it’s in. By shorting the contacts as shown, the PCM will think it’s always in Drive and override the 4k RPM rev limit. Fortunately, the white and black halves of the sensor act independently, so it doesn’t care that one half is commanding “P” and the other is commanding “D”.
The other green jumper on the black half isn’t necessary, that has to do with disabling the rear liftgate on the station wagon model when its out of “P”. As a side note, those with the ATX have probably noticed that the park brake automatically releases when shifting out of Park. That functionality is provided by a vacuum switch built into the shifter handle mechanism and has nothing to do with the MLP sensor. When I removed the shifter handle, I removed the vacuum valve and zip-tied it into the “P” position, so the park brake always engages. For safety’s sake, I’m going to cut and cap the vacuum line going to the parking brake solenoid to prevent any freak PB release events.
Along with my two invaluable assistants (thanks Dad and Bongo!), this photo shows the MTX transmission bolted up to the 3.2L engine, and the assembly fastened to the MTX subframe using the MTX motor and tranny mounts. Repositioning the subframe under the car was a breeze using two cheap furniture dollies from the hardware store.
Some other notes:
All the suspension components and subframe were painted with a rust preventative coating called POR-15, which is as tough as nails and is extremely effective.
The 3.0L accessories bolted right up to the 3.2L block, with the exception of the alternator, which required a small chunk be cut out of the front head to provide clearance. I used a Dremel and a hacksaw, which worked pretty well.
The A/C system was completely deleted for weight purposes, as well as saving that potential headache. I used the 3.2L radiator and fans, with 3.0L radiator hoses.
While the motor was out, I routed the clutch cable through the firewall. There’s a rubber plug that has a small vacuum line going through the hole where the cable needs to go. I popped the plug out and have the clutch cable running alongside the hose, along with the clutch interlock / starter enable wires (in a loom). I filled up the remaining hole with some black RTV sealant. In retrospect I think that vacuum line operates the park brake release, so perhaps I should have just cut it to get it out of the way.
The rod shifter was installed using the standard procedure. This one was a nice clean one from a Cali car. The stock MTX y-pipe easily clears the 3.2L oil pan, but I did have to swap the O2 sensors over from the ATX pipe since the ones in the MTX pipe were only 3-wire sensors and the electrical connectors wouldn’t mate up.
This photo shows the ATX exhaust system with the resonator removed. The resonator is longer than the MTX bent resonator pipe that is replacing it, so a patch piece is needed, as illustrated in the following picture.
The patch pipe we used measured 2.25” inner diameter by about 5” long. It slipped perfectly over both of the mating parts.
The MTX y-pipe easily clears the 3.2L oil pan, although the hanger is not utilized in this configuration.
whiteman_01
Well-Known Member
The above is the same write up that i have. If you would like the full document, let me know. Its pretty much a step by step write up someone did on how to do the full conversion.
Phoenix
SHOHOLIC
I posted it 2 posts above.
SolidState
No Mo SHO
I recall him having similar issues in another thread. Axianator helped with some insight on how the car will react in certain failure modes. I'll see if I can dig it up.
EDIT: http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=59071
Turns out he had a bad VSS. Might be a place to start.
EDIT: http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=59071
Turns out he had a bad VSS. Might be a place to start.
Last edited:
Dont think thats it it does it even in neutral but there is a weard revers problem when i bake up it jerks like a mother f*cker, and just noticed yesterday on the way to work kid wanted to race and well iv never opened it up since the swap. there seams to be a missfire when in on it hard most noticable when i shifted to second. (the civic still couldnt keep up but who really thought it would):laugh_ti:
munkee
Too busy...
could someone explain to me why you wouldn't just use an mtx computer?
Shoaz
Studly dood
That requires either changing the engine harness or rewiring it. There are some important differences in the pinouts between the ATX and MTX EEC, they're not plug-compatible.
FWIW, the Pumpkin has all kinds of funky idle issues. It's pretty schizophrenic and I don't know why. Sometimes it'll idle fine, no problems whatsoever, and other times it wants to idle at 1500-2000rpm, which is not good on the track. I don't know whether it's a vacuum leak somewhere or the 'puter is doing it or something else.
Just FYI, perhaps apropos of nothing.
I'd like to eventually get an MTX EEC in there.
green91SHOPlus
Member
So then is there any wire butchery required to simply use the 3.0 harness on the 3.2?
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