im am getting ready to do a 3.2 mtx swap the problem is i cant find any good threads that tell me what i need to put the 3.2 into the mtx. (i have found how to make your 3.2 atx into a 3.2mtx however) what i am looking for is a list of things i will need things i will have to do with the 3.2 to get everything to work. i already know the basics like the oil pan, accessories, subframe, timming belt set up, motor mounts, heads, and intake cams all used from the 3.0 but is there anything else i need to know please help me out i want to do this and get it done.
help me!!!! 3.2 into an mtx car!!!
- Thread starter shonum
- Start date
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K-Dawg
SHO Member
I thought Phoenix did a MTX swap, not a 3.2 swap.
The writeup on SHOTimes is helpful, but isn't perfect.
You don't have to use the 3.0 heads. I've just used the 3.2 heads and modified the front head to clear the alternator, but I'd probably use whichever is in better condition if I were doing it again. The rear heads are 100% the same anyway. It's also not necessary to use the 3.0 intake cams unless you want to. You can use either oil pump, but there are slight differences. I've used the 3.2 pump on swaps I've done.
Otherwise you pretty much got it. In short, strip the 3.2 down to just the block, crank, pistons, rods, oil pump, and heads/valvetrains, and build it up just like it is a 3.0.
lowc
aka vapah lock
: http://www.quebecspeed.com/pics/ATXtoMTX.pdf
this is what im gonna be going by but im doin mtx into 3.2
Thanks Phoenix
this is what im gonna be going by but im doin mtx into 3.2
Thanks Phoenix
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Phoenix
SHOHOLIC
The writeup is about a ATX - to - MTX not a 3.2 swap in an existing MTX car.
Note to everyone the quebecspeed.com is dropped. Im now hosting it here:
http://www.shospeed.com/pics/ATXtoMTX.pdf
The article about putting the mtx system into your atx won't help you, it will just confuse you.
To put a 3.2 into your mtx:
Remove all of the accessories and accessory drives from the 3.2 and 3.0, as you are going to install all of the 3.0 stuff on the 3.2 before you put it in the car. This includes the timing belt idlers and covers, including the metal rear timing belt cover. There will be some grinding needed on the front head to get the metal timing belt cover and alternator to fit - this will be apparent as you try to do this. All of the bolts for the timing covers will not line up, but enough will to secure the covers. If desired, you can drill and tap holes for the last 1 or 2 bolts.
You can swap in the 3.0 intake cams, but this is not required. If you do, you will only notice a difference above 4000 rpm. The 3.2 additional torque will be noticeable, even w/o the cam swap.
After you put on the timing belt covers, you will see a gap of ~1"x2" where the 3.2 oil pump leaves a gap because its smaller than the 3.0 pump. It is preferable to keep the 3.2 pump and fill this hole in some manner (some JB Weld and a piece of plastic, for example).
Remove exhaust manifolds, and put the 3.0 manifolds on the 3.2.
Remove the flex plate and flywheel, and install the flywheel on the 3.2. The cranks are identical. The flywheel is oriented with one of the attaching bolts being not equally spaced as all the other ones are.
It is preferable to swap the oil pan. The advantage is that it keeps the low oil sensor in the right location and keeps the Y-pipe holder, so if your 3.0 pan doesn't have a hole punched through it, that swap is recommended.
The 3.2 at this point looks virtually like a 3.0 from the outside, and the 3.0 motor mounts are used exactly as they were on the 3.0.
I know I left out some details, but that is the gist of it. Hope that helps.
To put a 3.2 into your mtx:
Remove all of the accessories and accessory drives from the 3.2 and 3.0, as you are going to install all of the 3.0 stuff on the 3.2 before you put it in the car. This includes the timing belt idlers and covers, including the metal rear timing belt cover. There will be some grinding needed on the front head to get the metal timing belt cover and alternator to fit - this will be apparent as you try to do this. All of the bolts for the timing covers will not line up, but enough will to secure the covers. If desired, you can drill and tap holes for the last 1 or 2 bolts.
You can swap in the 3.0 intake cams, but this is not required. If you do, you will only notice a difference above 4000 rpm. The 3.2 additional torque will be noticeable, even w/o the cam swap.
After you put on the timing belt covers, you will see a gap of ~1"x2" where the 3.2 oil pump leaves a gap because its smaller than the 3.0 pump. It is preferable to keep the 3.2 pump and fill this hole in some manner (some JB Weld and a piece of plastic, for example).
Remove exhaust manifolds, and put the 3.0 manifolds on the 3.2.
Remove the flex plate and flywheel, and install the flywheel on the 3.2. The cranks are identical. The flywheel is oriented with one of the attaching bolts being not equally spaced as all the other ones are.
It is preferable to swap the oil pan. The advantage is that it keeps the low oil sensor in the right location and keeps the Y-pipe holder, so if your 3.0 pan doesn't have a hole punched through it, that swap is recommended.
The 3.2 at this point looks virtually like a 3.0 from the outside, and the 3.0 motor mounts are used exactly as they were on the 3.0.
I know I left out some details, but that is the gist of it. Hope that helps.
thank you to all that wrote and i do have 2 3.0 motors along with my 3.2 so i will swap the heads and intake cams along with the oil pan. i do have a couple more questions if someone could be nice enough to answer. are the motor mounts the same from the 3.0 to the 3.2 and which would be the better oil pump to use because as stated above the 3.0 oil pump is bigger does this mean it flows more oil or just bigger in size? because if it flows more oil and it can be used wouldnt it be the better choice of the two? and are there any sensors ill have to switch out and what about the computer which one should i use or are there any more major modifacations i will have to do to get the 3.2 in with everything working right? and last thing does anyone know anything about the rods or any other parts that can be switched that are stronger than the other motor. i read a while back that one of the motors had forged parts that the other didnt???? anyone know if there is any truth to this? i do plan on putting power adders on
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SuperHO
Mental Patient
i've always seen the 3.2 oil pump used and have heard that due to the lower idle of the ATX, the 3.2 pump flows a lil stronger. as for the mounts, use the accessory bracket off the 3.0 and use the MTX mounts. the difference between the intake cams is .315 lift on the ATX cams vs .330 on the MTX cams, with only a few degrees duration difference. the call is yours.
jayro
SHO Member
I have been researcing this for a swap as well...here is what I have found. The blocks (for all reasonable purposes) are identical except the bore. You will keep all the 3.0 sensors, computer, accesories, acces. setup, motor mounts and exhaust manifolds. The oil pump is your call, but the 3.2 flows a little better, there will just be a gap to cover. I believe the 3.2 injectors can flow a little more as well (read up to about 300hp). It is my understanding that a tune is not required to use the 3.2 injectors with the 3.0 computer, but a tune could benefit you. If you plan on pulling the heads and the 3.0 heads are in good shape, just use those as it eliminates the grinding issue.
Both engines have forged crank and rods.....the 3.2 rods are a little stronger, but the 3.0 are by no means weak (a # of high HP SHOs run 3.0 rods). Pistons are not forged on either. Hope this helps
Jeremy
Both engines have forged crank and rods.....the 3.2 rods are a little stronger, but the 3.0 are by no means weak (a # of high HP SHOs run 3.0 rods). Pistons are not forged on either. Hope this helps
Jeremy
K-Dawg
SHO Member
Also, you'll have to use the 3.0 timing belt tensioner stud.
Motor mounts on the SHO motor are actually on the accessory mounting brackets, this is most of the reason why it is preferable to swap all the 3.0 accessories to mount the 3.2 in the mtx car.
The 3.2 oil pump is preferable because it flows slightly more oil, but the outer housing is different shape, and the 3.2 pump will leave the gap in the cover that I described above.
You will need to use the mtx pcm that was in the car.
The 3.2 rods are slightly stronger, but the wrist pin size is different, so you cannot use 3.2 rods in a 3.0 unless you bore the pistons to fit the larger wrist pins. There is no reason to open up the engine to do this swap, unless you need to repair the 3.2 prior to installing it.
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K-Dawg
SHO Member
This doens't make sense.
I think what he's trying to say is, keep it simple and use the 3.2 crank, rods and pistons.
jayro
SHO Member
Yeah I think he just ment that 3.2 rods and 3.0 pistons have fitment issues.
x2 on the keeping it simple.
x2 on the keeping it simple.
shoballsteel
SBXLIII Champs
I have found 2 SHOs in germany(92MTX white and 95ATX silver) and I have a question about this swap. I want to pull the block from this 3.2ATX 95 sho and put it into my 92MTX (in the states) and I can only move so much, do to wieght limits, so my question is what do I have to pull to make sure I have everthing I need to make this happen, As well as if you need something from these cars ask ME and I will do all I can to help out might have to pay for shipping? PM if you need something. TIA
jayro
SHO Member
It's pretty well outlined above. Basically the 3.2 rotating assembly (block, crank, rods and pistons). If you wanted to use the 3.2 oil pump and injectors you could get those as well....although they are not nessacary for the swap.
Jeremy
i wanted to add an update to this post i have the 3.2 fully torn down and have put the bottom end back together using the 3.2 rotating assembly the 3.0 oil pan and 3.2 oil pump along with the 3.0 timing set up i used the 3.0 bottom end gasket set. i am now ready to start building my topend but it has lead me to another question what topend gasket set should i get?
91PDXmocha
Active Member
Displacment is 3.2 = 3.2 head gaskets , intake and valve covers are they same .
gmail
Well-Known Member
make it easy on yourself and also know the condition of everything by simply taking all the stock mtx stuff off then taking all the 3.2 stuff off and swapping the 2
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