Faulty cam sensor possibly causing drivetrain issues?

[Holiday]

Curious if a faulty cam sensor can cause the car to do these micro movement back and forth? Happens occasionally, feels like there are subtle surges. Mostly noticeable coming off the gas to a cruising speed. I believe my cam sensor is failing and was wondering if that was one of the symptoms.

 

[Bryan]

Pull codes. Hard to see what the issue could be without a starting point. I believe one of the issues for a faulty cam sensor is erratic idle or car stalling as the computer can't see where the cam shafts are. Will also cause a hard start as well... But it could be a faulty DIS module as well. See if there is any stored codes in the memory.

 

[SHOdded]

mtx or atx? maintenance history? could be carbon buildup in the intake or EGR "nostrils" etc or if atx, a torque converter if happening at cruising speeds.

 

[Holiday]

So I had launched it earlier today and the engine didn't like it and the car started to fluctuate in power and almost stalled. Took awhile for it to level out but eventually did on the highway. I have a check engine light now which I'll check when I'm home.

 

[Bryan]

Pull codes.

 

[luigisho]

If you have difficulty with the flashes on the dash and whatnot get the


to make life easier

 

[SeanDev]

Curious if a faulty cam sensor can cause the car to do these micro movement back and forth? Happens occasionally, feels like there are subtle surges. Mostly noticeable coming off the gas to a cruising speed. I believe my cam sensor is failing and was wondering if that was one of the symptoms.

Ford has wierd quirks, I had a coil issue that caused bad drivetrain issues. Funny how I think what should be a tranny issue always has something to do without the tranny having any issue itself.

 

[M Brown]

Curious if a faulty cam sensor can cause the car to do these micro movement back and forth? Happens occasionally, feels like there are subtle surges. Mostly noticeable coming off the gas to a cruising speed. I believe my cam sensor is failing and was wondering if that was one of the symptoms.

I have a 95 Windstar, don't laugh. It uses the same cam sensor. I was having a problem when cruising around 40 mph, foot slightly on the accelerator the vehicle would do what I have heard called nibbling, feels like a small misfire or slight surge. All other driving seemed normal and no codes. I finally figured it out when my alternator, that is directly over the cam sensor went bad it got so hot the solder melted. all this excessive heat caused the other problem to act worse. After changing both parts, the vehicle is running normal now.

 

[Holiday]

I pulled codes and if read right they are:

212
219
543

So that appears to be IDM failure SPOUT grounded, SPOUT circuit, Fuel Pump circuit.

 

[luigisho]

Usually spout is triggered by failing DIS or computer unless there is a spout wiring issue. Checking the cam sensor is not a terrible idea. You can remove it and see how much if any oil may be leaking past the rubber seal on the cam shaft. Did the car stall at all? I am trying to figure out if the fuel code is due to stalling or if it is the cause of it running poorly. If it starts and runs currently you can clear the codes, run it again and see what new codes pop up to rule out old codes in memory.

This shows where and how to access cam sensor

SHO Phoenix Project

DIS is the ignition module on the passenger side of the intake manifold. It has wiring clips on either side and requires thermal paste to shield from heat if you remove/replace. Frequently cracks on sides from excessive engine movement and tight wiring there.
Computer is located behind the glove box with the main wiring harness on the engine side of the firewall. There is an integrated bolt in the middle of the harness that screws into the computer frame and keeps it from working loose.

 

[Holiday]

Thanks luigisho.

Last time I had issues the car wouldn't start sometimes, occasionally stalled. I thought it the cam sensor as that is what the previous owner thought it was. Then suddenly the issue seemed to clear up on it's own and I had no issues, ran fine for months. I did notice recently the car seemed to do these subtle back and forth movements sometimes as mentioned in my first post.

Then more recently I noticed the occasional lag in starting the car and then I had the instance of the engine throwing a fit when I launched hard from a standstill, though it could have been me getting off and back on the gas repeatedly in quick succession as I was doing a quick 3-point turn. RPMs began to fluctuate, the car kept loosing power (difficulty holding idle) and almost stalled. Check Engine light then came on. Ran rough for a bit. I think whatever happened threw the computer off but as I continued driving the car (steady highway speeds) for awhile everything smoothed out to normal. Next I started up the car the Check Engine light was gone.

So it's running OK now but obviously something failed in a considerable way and I'm thinking perhaps whatever it is probably hasn't been working optimally for some time.

Before I address the DIS module what related spark out connectors should I check over? I do have a wire near the firewall that isn't connected to anything which has me curious. Also seemed to remember something about the bolts to the DIS ensuring ground and thus not be loose, any truth to that? Do you think the fuel pump circuit code was just a domino effect of the SPOUT circuit issues?

Thanks

 

[rubydist]

In my experience 212 is caused by a sick cam sensor. But when you couple that with 219, it could easily be a wiring issue anywhere in the harness - I've seen plenty of those too just not in that circuit in my particular experience.

543 is set any time the engine stalls, and can be ignored on this engine.

 

[luigisho]

So it's running OK now but obviously something failed in a considerable way and I'm thinking perhaps whatever it is probably hasn't been working optimally for some time.

Before I address the DIS module what related spark out connectors should I check over? I do have a wire near the firewall that isn't connected to anything which has me curious. Also seemed to remember something about the bolts to the DIS ensuring ground and thus not be loose, any truth to that? Do you think the fuel pump circuit code was just a domino effect of the SPOUT circuit issues?

Thanks

I would clear the codes currently stored in the computer and see what pops back up. You can do this by disconnecting the battery for 5-10 minutes.

The spout circuit wiring is at the rear passenger side of the engine bay. It has a jumper-looks like a square looking plastic thing that you can pull like a fuse to interrupt the signal and that triggers default "limp home mode" engine timing which has power way down. I would look at the cam sensor and see what it looks like. I don't like to throw parts at things too much, but I would put this in a basket of it's probably old, heat cycled and maybe drenched in oil over time (have to pull and confirm) so no harm no foul.
I don't remember if the securing bolt in the wiring harness also is the ground. Really with all the movement the harness needs to physically secure itself to the computer to maintain continuity. There are bolts on the DIS that ground the module.

 

[Holiday]

Thanks again.

I'm gonna reset the computer and perhaps reapply the thermal paste to the DIS as well as check/clean connectors. I already bought the cam sensor awhile ago so I'm thinking might as well install it. The seal for the cam sensor is inserted behind the cam shaft shutter?

 

[Bryan]

Thanks again.

I'm gonna reset the computer and perhaps reapply the thermal paste to the DIS as well as check/clean connectors. I already bought the cam sensor awhile ago so I'm thinking might as well install it. The seal for the cam sensor is inserted behind the cam shaft shutter?

there is no seal for the cam shaft sensor. Only a seal for the camshaft itself

 

[zoomlater]

look at the Shophoenix link luigisho posted and you can see where the seal is located

 

[luigisho]

I haven't had an atx but on my mtx cars it is easiest to remove wheel liner and get long extentions through one of the holes in the sheet metal to get a socket on the small bolts. Just like in the pic. There are a few holes in there and you will be able to line it up easily. Just try not to lose the small bolts.

If the seal has failed, there are write ups on how to change it out archived somewhere on here.

 

[Holiday]

So reset the computer and then recently while going in the reverse the car shaked violently (been having this issue on/off) and the shaking disturbed something that caused the same issue as before with up and down rpms and eventually stalled, then hard to start up again. Ran KOEO test and all I got was 542, I assume due to the stall. Wondering if I should do a KOER test now, if that will tell anything. So best I can think of is perhaps a grounding issue or the DIS module and/or the cam sensor.

 

[zoomlater]

My car would buck when the cam sensor started to fail
unplug the connector to the cam sensor and start it (it could take a few tries as the engine is guessing when to fire). If the car run fine after that, then itss probably the cam sensor

 

[luigisho]

Have you tackled the cam sensor yet? I see you have one but I don't know if you've removed it and swapped it out. If you already have one I would change it out and see how much, if any, oil is back in there.