Engine dies while running in traffic, HELP PLEASE!!

[SideSHO09]

I have a 92 MTX and sometimes while driving normal speed or sitting at a stoplight the car will just shut off. When I go to try and start it back up it turns over but will not fire up. I have to wait like 30 minutes before it starts again and sometimes after it starts it will die after a few minutes but most of the time it wont.
Other than that the car runs beautifully but im tired of having to push this thing out of the traffic and wait in parking lots until it decides to start.
Was thinking maybe its a bad crank sensor but i noticed that the battery light comes on after every start and goes off after the rpms go past 2000. Just got my charging system checked and it is at 11.x volts as opposed to the 13.x it should be at. Could this be a bad alternator also?
Also, how do you pull codes on these cars?
Also if the crank sensor is bad from the water pump leaking onto it, if you replace with a new sensor, wont that one also go bad shortly after from the water pump dripping onto the new one? Is there some way to cover it up so it wont get wet again?

 

[Vnuk1]

here is a thread already started and it sounds like you to have the same problem check it out and let me know if this helps you sounds like a crank sensor though.:wave:

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=89766&highlight=dies+driving

 

[brandon1186]

i would say that is your crank sensor either on its way out or it it is getting wet from your waterpump leaking on to it so it starts when it has a chance to cool down

 

[Brett]

I vote alternator.

 

[brandon1186]

change the leaky waterpump while you are down there

 

[mooseSHO46]

I say check all of the above haha, but my problem was a loose battery connection when that was happening to mine. So I ended up switching my terminals now it works fine, but the previous owner also put on some crappy terminals. so i vote alternator on this one.

 

[ShadetreeSHOguy]

Yep, that sounds like Classic Crank sensor failure due to the water pump weep hole leaking on the sensor and shorting it out.

Sounds like you should be brushing up on your 60k skillz.

Here's a website that will be a great help to you if you want to tackle it yourself.

http://www.shophoenixproject.com/

Good luck!

 

[johndallara]

SHO issues

I might be the classic CPS problem, but w/ the alternator showing low voltage I would get a reman for the 92 and fix that first, perhaps along w/ a new battery.

If that does not work, then you are on to bigger issues. In the long run, the car probably needs its 60K done, as described in the listed posts. A link either on the


http://www.shophoenixproject.com


also see my site for more front 60K stuff:


http://www.emprepcourse.com/sho


website or the forum will show you how to pull the codes. If the CPS is bad, you should get some codes.

JD

 

[SideSHO09]

Another thing i noticed is everytime i start the car the battery light comes on and like i said if i rev it past 2k it goes off but at the same time i notice the interior lights get brighter and the fuel pump gets a little louder as if when the light was on there wasnt enough voltage going through the system.
you're right though, its time for the 60k so im gonna go through everything that the 60k entails but not yet, not for a couple months, should be ok till then i hope.
Another thing is the CEL doesnt come on after the car is started and checked for codes but there a NONE. Hoping its just the alternator.

 

[pitaSHO]

THAT sounds like an alternator, but there could also be a cam or crank sensor problem going on, too. My 89 has a bad crank sensor and my 93 has a bad cam sensor, I think.

Chris K.

 

[SideSHO09]

I know my crank sensor is bad and getting worse. just checked some records on the car and it looks like the cps was last replaced exactly 5 yrs ago.
Would a bad cps cause the battery light to come on and go off after i start driving.
Also, a leaking water pump will cause the cps to short out so is it possible that when i replace the cps that i can cover it up to lessen the chances of coolant getting on the cps and shorting it out again?

 

[RickieFrat]

This sounds like a tie between the Alt and the CPS.

In my old 92, I believe I went through 4 CPS in about a year and a half. The CPS does control power to the fuel pump so if it is failing (cps), you will see problems else where in the car.


I always took the back roads to Fred Hurder's house because every time I was on Rt 146 - The car would die and I had to wait for it to cool off to get it there or wait for porkchop to AAA tow me there. Once there and torn apart - a leaky waterpump was the cause to all the CPS. Bad part was that I couldn't see the leak but always seen dirt and grime on the CPS.

This was also like 10 years ago :laugh_ti:

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Start with the electrical system first. A bad battery/alternator cable will cause the car to die unexpectedly and have difficulty restarting until it cools-down because of the amount of resistance in the battery-to-starter cable. So start with the cables first, and then get the electrical system rechecked.

A bad alternator can cause all kinds of sensor-related problems, as the ECM (computer) uses a combination of voltage and resistance feedback to essentially run everything. Low voltage will affect most of these sensors, and result in premature failure of many electrical components over time.

If the CPS is failing - even if the failure is intermittent - it will set a code. The fact that your not getting a code indicates the CPS is not at fault and suggests that the problem is electrical in source. It may be that the ECM is going bad, and that when the car dies, it is due to power being lost at the ECM, which would clear the KAM (Keep Alive Memory), where the codes are stored. So start with the battery/starter cables, then the alternator, then go from there if you start getting stored-codes once the starting/charging issues are addressed.

 

[USHOMEISHOU]

FYI
a leaking water pump is NOT the only reason that your CPS fails, they just crap out sometimes. My CPS went out 2 years ago and I have yet to loose a waterpump.

 

[SideSHO09]

Start with the electrical system first. A bad battery/alternator cable will cause the car to die unexpectedly and have difficulty restarting until it cools-down because of the amount of resistance in the battery-to-starter cable. So start with the cables first, and then get the electrical system rechecked.

A bad alternator can cause all kinds of sensor-related problems, as the ECM (computer) uses a combination of voltage and resistance feedback to essentially run everything. Low voltage will affect most of these sensors, and result in premature failure of many electrical components over time.

If the CPS is failing - even if the failure is intermittent - it will set a code. The fact that your not getting a code indicates the CPS is not at fault and suggests that the problem is electrical in source. It may be that the ECM is going bad, and that when the car dies, it is due to power being lost at the ECM, which would clear the KAM (Keep Alive Memory), where the codes are stored. So start with the battery/starter cables, then the alternator, then go from there if you start getting stored-codes once the starting/charging issues are addressed.

That makes a lot of sense. Come to think of it the car has been doing some funny stuff lately, electrical wise that is.
Ok so the cps will set a code and trip the CEL which has not happened. The CEL goes off immediately after i start the car.
Im going to start with the alternator and cables.
I took the car to Kragen to get tested and the battery is healthy but for some reason there is no voltage coming out of the charging system which leads me to the alternator in which i suspect a bad voltage regulator inside the alternator.
Also on the battery, there is a main ground cable and another wire smaller in diameter that is also grounded to the chasis and connected to the negative post of the battery, that wire along with the ground cable is exposed as there is no connector just connected to the battery by the wire itself, could be a problem.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Most of the idiot lights come-on for a brief period during engine start, which is called prove-out if I remember correctly. It happens so you know the idiot lights are all still working. The following "warning" lights should illuminate for a few seconds after the ignition key is first moved to the START position:

• Oil Pressure
  
  
• Anti-lock Brake
  
  
• Brake Warning
  
  
• Charging System
  
  
• Low Coolant Indicator
  
  
• Overdrive Off (ATX)
  
  
• Seat Belt system
  
  
• Check Engine
  
  
• Air Bag system
  
  
• Low Oil Indicator
  
  
• Lamp Out Indicator

That makes a lot of sense. Come to think of it the car has been doing some funny stuff lately, electrical wise that is.

Ok so the cps will set a code and trip the CEL which has not happened. The CEL goes off immediately after i start the car.

Im going to start with the alternator and cables.

I took the car to Kragen to get tested and the battery is healthy but for some reason there is no voltage coming out of the charging system which leads me to the alternator in which i suspect a bad voltage regulator inside the alternator.

I'm not sure I understand what you're describing below (emphasized in bold).

Also on the battery, there is a main ground cable and another wire smaller in diameter that is also grounded to the chasis and connected to the negative post of the battery, [the small] wire along with the ground cable is exposed as there is no connector just connected to the battery by the wire itself, could be a problem.

 

[SideSHO09]

What i mean is that instead of the negative cables being connected to the battery by a connector, the actual bare wire is connected to the battery terminal.
All of the idiot lights come on when started up but only the battery light stays on until the engine reaches 2k rpms and then it goes off and doesnt come on again until the car is started back up.
Sometimes the abs light will stay on and wont go off no matter what.

 

[SideSHO09]

I noticed that there is a module in front of the car under the radiator shroud (Integrated Relay Assembly). Sometimes when i shut the car down, the fan keeps running. So I have to unplug the fan connection to turn off the fan and one time i even unplugged the IRA and plugged it back up and its been good for at least a month now, meaning no fan running after the engine is shut off. Im thinking this could also have something to do with the engine shutting off while driving as all the electronics are connected in one way or another.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Are the wires simply wrapped around the negative battery post ?

You have to get a good/new battery terminal connector, as grounds are critical for the SHO.

An "intermittent" ABS is another indicator of a bad connection and/or insufficient electrical supply (voltage).

What i mean is that instead of the negative cables being connected to the battery by a connector, the actual bare wire is connected to the battery terminal.

All of the idiot lights come on when started up but only the battery light stays on until the engine reaches 2k rpms and then it goes off and doesnt come on again until the car is started back up.
Sometimes the abs light will stay on and wont go off no matter what.

You will see references to that module as both the IRCM and CCRM, the latter being the more common and more recent of the two.

In addition to containing the relay(s) to the fan, it also contains the relay to the fuel pump. But again, first you need to fix your eletrical supply issues. You can (or could a few months ago) buy a new battery terminal connector for $1.99 and tax at Advanced or AutoZone.

I noticed that there is a module in front of the car under the radiator shroud (Integrated Relay Assembly). Sometimes when i shut the car down, the fan keeps running. So I have to unplug the fan connection to turn off the fan and one time i even unplugged the IRA and plugged it back up and its been good for at least a month now, meaning no fan running after the engine is shut off. Im thinking this could also have something to do with the engine shutting off while driving as all the electronics are connected in one way or another.

 

[SideSHO09]

they arent wrapped but are held in place by the connector itself with the bare wire being visible.
I really need to check all these connections. My stalling and starting problems are probably from faulty cable/wiring/connections.
Stormchaser, could you givie me an idea of what grounds and connections need to be checked and/or repaired? Like all the crucial ground points and connections.