crude....but funny!

[MOSHO92]

The physics of sound is a fairly fascinating subject, but one too large
to
cover here. Basically speaking, all sound travels in a sine wave. Sound
waves (and sine waves) look like big boobs, especially low frequency
sound.
Nice, curvy *******. The more volume that you ask for, the bigger the
tittie the amp has to produce. However, if you want too big of a
tittie,
and your amp can't give you anything more than a 36C, it still tries to
give you what you need. But instead, it produces a truncated tittie.
That
looks like a big tittie with the top cut off. Then your speaker is
like,
"What the **** kind of tittie is this?" And then it tries to deal with
it,
but speakers really freak out when you give them squared-off *******,
and
they start making strange noises, and damage themselves in the process.
This is called clipping.

Conversely, if your amp can really fill out a D cup, but your speakers
are
merely a C, a little extra isn't going to **** them. Looks damn good if
you
ask me.


shrug This is cute....but is it true. All you audio gurus can help me with this. If i were to get a kickass amp, could it sound better in the stock speaker setup. I cant get my music too loud right now or my speakers make weird noise. Is this "clipping" or can the stock paper speakers just not handle it?

 

[shadow102]

clipping is when the amp cannot handle the volume you want to send yuor speakers what you are expierencing is the speakers not being able to handle the power your amp is giving to them

 

[shoRunner]

Your stock speaker setup would sound better with a better amp, but not that much. It still wouldn't produce ground shaking base like it would with a great amp and some aftermarket speakers. Though for stock speakers the ones in the SHO aren't bad, but they are certainly not designed for bass(the reason they have a crossover) or to be really loud. The amps currently in the SHO only make 15watts RMS, thats really weak considering my Alpine headunit makes twice that. If you want to start making a good sound system in your car start with getting a good, high quality headunit. And if you want to get a great amp get some decent speakers to go with it or you're wasting your money.

 

[thebigjimsho]

shoRunner:
Your stock speaker setup would sound better with a better amp, but not that much. It still wouldn't produce ground shaking base like it would with a great amp and some aftermarket speakers. Though for stock speakers the ones in the SHO aren't bad, but they are certainly not designed for bass(the reason they have a crossover) or to be really loud. The amps currently in the SHO only make 15watts RMS, thats really weak considering my Alpine headunit makes twice that. If you want to start making a good sound system in your car start with getting a good, high quality headunit. And if you want to get a great amp get some decent speakers to go with it or you're wasting your money.

I don't care how much you pay for a head unit, the 15 watts the factory amp puts out is a truer wattage than the so-called 30 your Alpine puts out. That is why all true audiophile head units have no internal amp. They are only adequate for passive listening. You want quality watts? Get an external amp. Preferably an aftermarket. With aftermarket speakers. boink

 

[shadow102]

yeah the wattage on HU is a joke they do do sumthing but not much...however they are right i have a 45x2 a/d/s amp powering my tweets and front speakers and the speekers start to pop if i turn them too high because they are being over powered

 

[shoRunner]

The 30 watts I spoke of was RMS(actually its 27 but I rounded), its a 60watt max headunit, the most powerful on the market. And it is by far better than the stock amps, seeing that they are 12yrs old and old technology. By no means is it better than an aftermarket stand alone amp. When I had it in with the stock speakers it easily had cleaner, louder sound than the stock amps could ever give, and it had plenty of power to spare. I do consider myself an audiophile, and will soon have a US Acoustics 4065 powering my speakers, instead of the headunit. Though for now it is adequate. Oh, and yes most manufacturers do hype up the watts of there HU by giving max not RMS, which is why I don't use max.

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: shoRunner ]</small>

 

[AVINO95]

you still are on crack if you think a head unit can provide better power than an external amp. period. internal headunit amps start to distort at around 10 or 12 watts. even your alpine's supposed 27 watts RMS is a load of shit. sorry to burst your bubble. and a US Acoustics amp is far from an audiophile grade component. As far as the original topic of this post, it is correct. A "square wave" results when you push more signal into your amp than it can push out. This is why amps have gain controls and this is why setting the gain on your amp is an important step in tuning a system. you want the gain to be set so that at max levels, you are right below the point of clipping the signal. however in the case of the stock system making bad noises...my 95 has never really distorted on me and i have had it pretty much all the way up...i would bet that your stock speakers have worn out, warped, and deteriorated to the point where they should be replaced. The JBL system is set up to have a lot of headroom, or in otherwords, it is set up so that the gain is set well below the threshold where the signal might clip. also if i am not mistaken, there is a built in compression circuit that if the input signal were too hot, it would automatically be knocked down to below clipping. I am not basing all of this on conjecture either. I am basing what i say on experience. i have been involved with car audio since high school, and worked in pro-sound for 5 years. This post isn't meant to flame anyone either, just provide some information.

 

[shadow102]

yeah like i said the reason my speakers are stating to pop at louder volumes is due to another amp pushing them...i am however aware that the rear 6x9 "woofers" distort rly eaily so i just unplugged them and use the 5x7's for rear fill and let the cadence's take care of the base

 

[Neo]

The problem with wattage ratings on anything is that there are no rules as to how a company labels there amp & deck power ratings. When a company says "50 x 4" they generaly don't say at what distortion level or what frequency. A deck amp my be able to make 50 watts, but probably at
%10 distortion, and prbably at one frequency (usually 1k). There is nobody to tell them they can't say that, becouse in a lab, at optimal conditions (14.4v, one frequency, and who cares what distortion) it will make 50x4. But in the real world, where we play very dynamic sounds at multiple frequencies (aka music) a deck amp is only good for about 15-20 watts, RMS. Even the new Alpine deck amps are only good for about 20-22 watts RMS. I work at an audo store that sells some really high end car and home audio equepment. I have 3 Adcom class A amps, Diamond seps, and an 18W3 (don't laugh, you wouldn't believe how tight an 18 can get) and an Alpine deck, and I still don't consider myself an Audiophile. I just like good sound, and am pretty picky. Anyway, to get to the point, for sure an outboard amp is the way to go, just don't expect to buy a $50 100x4 amp and expect it to sound better then just a quality deck. It's not just the fact that it's an outboard amp, but the quality of the amp, just like everything else.

 

[shoRunner]

As I said "it is by no means better than an after market amp", though it is cleaner and more powerful than the stock JBL setup. The 27 watts RMS is actually pretty accurate, it was done for all frequencies(40hz-20,000hz) at 14.4volts(alittle high) with only .8% THD (still basically unnoticable). At any rate, it is better than 15watts RMS. If you do some research on US Acoustics amps you will see they are really good for the price and are underrated in their power. No its not top-of-the-line, but for my current budget its the best.

 

[AVINO95]

yeah, sorry if i came off like a dick in my last post. i re-read it and i sounded like an ass. anyways, i have yet to be impressed with the sound that has come out of any head unit amp, the fact of the matter is it is still just a little chip making all the noise, not all that dynamic, nor transparent as a good amp should be. I don't know if anyone was following the recent trend with class t amps, they are extremely efficent, and require no heatsink. (the new blaupunkt amps are a great example) there was some talk at one time of incorporating them into headunits. when that happens i will use my head unit power, until then it is only external amplification for me. and yeah, for the money a us acoustics is a pretty decent amp, my point was more that you shouldn't throw the term audiophile around. those guys are freakin nuts and go to no end to get faithful reproduction. these are the guys who sit there swapping out different capacitors and inductors in their already 800 dollar compnent set crossover to reduce teh "grunge" in their speakers...most people would be more than satisfied with a 200 dollar set of components...get my drifT? they take it to the extreme and are very critical. most people who say they are audiophiles are not. Have a good one!

Dave

 

[shoRunner]

yeah i guess i use the term audiophile losely...meaning I like high quality sound with some good bump. I don't have the time or money to be a true audiophile. I am definately looking into the blaupunkt PA amps(class T) since as you can see the rest of my system is basically blaupunkt and I have been quite impressed with the quality for the price.

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: shoRunner ]</small>

 

[Brandontw]

I don't care how much you pay for a head unit, the 15 watts the factory amp puts out is a truer wattage than the so-called 30 your Alpine puts out. That is why all true audiophile head units have no internal amp. They are only adequate for passive listening. You want quality watts? Get an external amp. Preferably an aftermarket. With aftermarket speakers. boink

Yes!! tru dat home slice!

IMO you should upgrade in this order:

HU first hookes to stock amps and speaks

Subs and amp next, at the same time dont get new subs and try to run them off that poor little amp, and conversly dont git a big shiny new amp and plug it into that lil' bitch of a sub.

Next your four channel amp, just hook it all up to you factory speaks and see how you like it, make sure you get one with enough power to upgrade your speaks later.

Then if its still lacking the audio excelency that you desire get a nice set of component speakers for the front, these are more important than the rear speaks for staging, imaging and sound quality. dont be cheap!

Ten to top it off get some decent speakers to throw in the rear deck for your rear fill( not that important) and your all set.

Note: you ll then realize that you wish your HU could play MP3's and that it had more options, then youll decide that your subs arent loud enough so youll upgrade to 12's or 15's then youll have to get a new amp, its a never ending and expensive cycle, and addictive, i almost wish that i had never started, but its to much fun.

 

[93medusa]

wow, way to revive a thread that is over a year old

 

[SteedaSVT]

HA... if funny reading some of these post!

that one dudes a professional hes been working with car audio since HS probably at Curcuit city