Clutch Time

[sdpatt]

How much does it usually cost to get a flywheel refinished?

They even had a "dowel removing tool" to pull the alignment pins. Unfortunately, one of the pins snapped at the flywheel's surface while they were trying to pull it. Only about 40% of the cross section of the pin showed a brittle fracture. The other 60% was a long time rusted fissure. They reinstalled the other two pins. I will drill out the broken pin and install one of the pins that come with the SHO NUT clutch kit. I will have my clutch resurfaced in preparation for the next local clutch job. It's nice to have a good machine shop close by.

After watching the Josh Teixeira's clutch video, I liked the idea of supporting the engine from above. His mount has obviously served him well. I was wary of the shallow angle of the chain between the forward lifting eye and the bolt inserted at the driver's rear corner of the head. That put a lot of force on the intake at the rear corner. I have drawn up a design for an engine mount with the lifting points positioned directly above the engine attachment locations. If it works out, I will show pictures, dimensions and parts. I will be visiting my local Home Depot (Lowe's actually) for the lumber and steel hardware for this reuseable device. Should cost less than $20 ($25 actually - those 6" long threaded eye bolts were $5 each - surprised me).

Here is the finished flywheel.

The finished face.

Close up of finish.

Broken dowel - it really wasn't their fault.

<small>[ February 17, 2003, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: sdpatt ]</small>

 

[rangerj]

SDPATT,

Last summer I did a clutch/pressure plate, and throw out bearing job. The machine shop charged $125 to resurface the flywheel and remove and replace the alignment pins.

I think you will find that by supporting the engine from above you will have more room to work "downunder".
I am very interested in your support design. Like I said, my clutch has 80K on it, so I am due.

Consider using the bolts with the heads cut off as guides fo removing the trans, and for putting it back on. This realy does help to quickly get the trans in place without knocking the clutch and pressure plate out of alignment.

Please keep us posted. rangerj

 

[drivinhard]

$125 for a flywheel resurface?!?!? Wow.

Most machine shops will do it in the $20-$30 range.

 

[shojuan]

Scott, the Fidanza really makes the SHO feel like a lighter car. Only a few hundred bucks and you'll feel like you've got a new car all over again! Really, you're working now and I just don't see the harm in making that one last mod to your car. Every time you push in the clutch pedal you'll be glad you spent the $300.

 

[Bizzy]

Good luck with the clutch job Scott. I think you have your bases covered and you know that if you run into problems there are tons of people that are more than glad to be able to help you out (for a change). wink

 

[shojuan]

Bizzy:
Good luck with the clutch job Scott. I think you have your bases covered and you know that if you run into problems there are tons of people that are more than glad to be able to help you out (for a change). wink

Hey Bizzy, did you install a Fidanza when you had your clutch done?

 

[Bizzy]

shojuan:

Bizzy:
Good luck with the clutch job Scott. I think you have your bases covered and you know that if you run into problems there are tons of people that are more than glad to be able to help you out (for a change). wink

Hey Bizzy, did you install a Fidanza when you had your clutch done?

Nope...I got a stock resurfaced one as well. However....my clutch plate is a different story. Definitely not stock. wink

I did consider the Fidanza but at that particular moment I was pretty broke. There's always the next time I suppose.

Edit: Scott, did you get the Teflon TOB release shaft bushing upgrade? From what I understand they are awesome. I saw them when I was at Josh's in January and they look like they are more than worth the extra bucks.

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Bizzy ]</small>

 

[sdpatt]

I'm going with the stock throwout bearing that comes in the SHO NUT clutch kit. The last two stock TOBs have each made it past 80,000 miles. I wanted to get my own eyes and hands on the worn parts to determine the mode of failure this time. A root cause analysis will then be performed. I suspect Josh has already done this, but I wanted to see for myself.

The extra $74 for the ceramic TOB upgrade was 1/3 the cost of the whole clutch kit. The Fidanza flywheel ($499) is much more expensive that the clutch kit and the transaxle kit put together. I have a spare flywheel from the Lone Star group that I had resurfaced for only $25. I don't need to spend any more money to farther stress an already senior SHO.

Even after returning to work, I'm still on a tight budget. Michele and I are preparing for a second child later this year (September) and I don't need to spend the money on things I don't really need. I'd like to buy the Fidanza flywheel and ceramic TOB upgrade, but that's another $573 that I don't need to spend.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Scott, I'm curious what (if anything) you've considered doing if your motor ever decides to finally retire on you (presumably sometime after 350K)? eek!

 

[drivinhard]

Stick in a 3.2L and keep on truckin' wink

The stock flywheel has the best street manors due to the extra weight. More inertia working for you while getting the car moving.

 

[sdpatt]

Buy another car? Even my wife has been asking that question since I have been putting in all the effort lately to keep it in shape. With the top and front end 60K services and connecting rod bearings over the holidays, she is confident that a new car would cost less money. I have had a difficult time convincing her that a new $30,000 car would cost more per year than even the expensive $1,902 that I spent on repairs and services for the SHO last year. Even a $20,000 note at 6% APR for 5 years would cost $387 a month. Times 12, that comes out to $4,640 for one year and that's a far cry from $1,902 (a bad year). Those costs don't even consider the fact that very few sports sedans can be used to tow a 3,000 pound boat and I am not about to drive a truck.

 

[shojuan]

sdpatt:
The Fidanza flywheel ($499) is much more expensive that the clutch kit and the transaxle kit put together. I don't need to spend any more money to farther stress an already senior SHO.

You can get the Fidanza flywheel for as little as $299. The lighter weight would probably mean less stress for your SHO. Put it's still a lot of money. There's always the next clutch job 80,000 miles down the road! That ought to be enough time to find somebody with a stock clutch/fidanza combination who will let you drive it to see if you really like it.

Good luck on the clutch job! thumbs_u I'll probably be doing my clutch within 9 months, my first clutch job. Wouldn't have ever thought about attempting it without the resources available here. I have two other cars in the driveway that will need new clutches soon, well one of them because the last clutch job wasn't done very well. Actually, the clutch job (10 years ago, but very few miles) on my 914 wasn't very satisfactory so that make 3 other cars that could use at least an inspection to see what is going on.

 

[Emerald94]

Isn't there a 17 lb flywheel available as well?
Would it make a difference in driving?

drivinhard:
Stick in a 3.2L and keep on truckin' wink

The stock flywheel has the best street manners due to the extra weight. More inertia working for you while getting the car moving.

 

[drivinhard]

The 17 lb unit with the later 9.75" cast PP is about the same weight as the early stock FW and stamped steel 9.25" set. Yes those SHOs had better throttle response, but even though the weights are the same, the earlier clutch concetrated it's weight closer to the crank centerline, so the centrifugal forces are different. The 9.25" unit would still be a bit more zippy.

Nothing wrong with an 8 lb flywheel btw, the 3.2L in my 89 really came alive with the SS 8 lb unit. But it's not as street friendly as a stock flywheel.

 

[shojuan]

drivinhard:

Nothing wrong with an 8 lb flywheel btw, the 3.2L in my 89 really came alive with the SS 8 lb unit. But it's not as street friendly as a stock flywheel.

When I drove Tony's SHO with a stock clutch/Fidanza flywheel combination I thought it was extremely driver friendly. I felt it was 5X better than even when my SHO was brand new (with the 9.25" clutch). I'm not trying to say that your feelings on the clutch are wrong. Just I'm really surprised that opinions can vary so much on this one clutch issue. IMHO (a much humbler opinion than yours, I know you've seen a lot of different clutches) the stock clutch/flywheel combination has way too much mass. It did take Tony a few weeks to get completely used to his new clutch but now he swears by it. For me, the moment I started driving his car it really reminded me of my old 90 Camry's stock clutch (I got that car with 22,000 miles on it, practically brand new). You can't get much more driver friendly than a smooth as butter, light, hydraulically actuated new Toyota sedan stock clutch. I guess those Toyota clutches take a bit of getting used to for people used to really heavy cable actuated clutches (yeah, now that I think about it when I first got that camry it felt funny for a while. But that toyota engineering does grow on you and just feel "right").

Again, I'm not trying to nay say your opinion Mark, I just want to add a counterpoint. At face value what you're saying would really suggest to someone that the fidanza flywheel makes for a "wild" clutch on the street. IMHO, it's just the opposite. Well I think good advice here would be anybody debating their next clutch and flywheel should try to make it out to the convention to drive somebody's SHO with the combination they are thinking of.

 

[drivinhard]

The 8lb unit is just trickier on the street, once you get the hang on it, it's not a huge issue (for me anyway). However most folks will find (and prefer) a heavier rotating assembly for stoplight to stoplight city driving. Having a stock clutch (organic disc, very smooth engagement and street manors) on a light weight flywheel would be the best clutch to have with a light flywheel. Having a more aggressive clutch on a light flywheel can take some getting used to.

My 89 has a puck'd disc with very aggressive friction material, and it's pretty "wild" with an 8 lb unit. But I don't sit in city traffic so it's not a big deal to me.

I agree with driving another car to get a feel for something you are thinking about doing. Best way is to feel it for yourself and see if you like it.

If you ever get the itch to have a daily driver SHO with an alum flywheel, racy clutch, track seats, 5 pt belts, and 65 feet of tubing in the interior, you can drive my 89 to see if you like it. It's no big deal other than the funny looks the cops give you at seatbelt check roadblocks.

 

[Bizzy]

drivinhard:
If you ever get the itch to have a daily driver SHO with an alum flywheel, racy clutch, track seats, 5 pt belts, and 65 feet of tubing in the interior, you can drive my 89 to see if you like it. It's no big deal other than the funny looks the cops give you at seatbelt check roadblocks.

OH OH! ME ME ME!!! thumbs_u I'd like to try it in Madison Mark. That is if I don't see you sooner.

 

[PROPHET]

Ricks right,ive grown to love this combo clutch/flywheel. thumbs_u

Ive also noticed my left calf muscle has shrunk a little,must be the super light clutch pedal feel

<small>[ February 19, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: PROPHET ]</small>