Clutch issues

[javve]

This is a little bit of a rant as well as needing some ideas.

It started with the clutch slipping. I got the flywheel turned, replaced the clutch and throwout bearing. I also replaced the seals for the axles on the transmission side. I did research first to find the out I needed to tie the clutch pedal up.

I get everything back together, and the car will not shift into gear. The clutch is not fully disengaging.

I went to reset the auto adjust mechanism as it was all the way in the back. With no success on getting it to move, I removed the top pin, causing the teeth of the auto adjust to swing toward the back. At this point I realize that was a bad move.

I'm thinking with it all the way in the back I should have gotten the most pull on the cable? I know I'm going to have to remove the pedal to fix it. Is it possible the cable is stretched even though everything worked before I dropped the tranny? That plastic cover over the adjuster is a pita to get to the 2 bolts btw!

The above is where I need some input. I am so ready to cut my losses on this car and call the dealership to come get it, except I've put a lot of $$$ into it.. It's the car in my sig, which will be updated momentarily with everything I have done to it.

 

[SHOVNST]

Friction disc in backwards?

 

[sperold]

The clutch cable is not stretched, and there is a real good chance the disc is in backwards like 4DR 4 SHO suggested.
You bought a clutch kit... with a pressure plate and a clutch plate, right?
Lots of people have made the same mistake.

 

[jimtash]

It's either backwards or was mishandled and oil and grease caused it to glaze on the flywheel.

 

[kevinspann]

Disc probably in backwards. Or the dowel pins weren't in all the way and the pressure plate isn't flush with the flywheel.

 

[zak]

Disc probably in backwards. Or the dowel pins weren't in all the way and the pressure plate isn't flush with the flywheel.

You can pull the starter to check to see that the pressure plate is down flat. However, from my own painful experience, the many people suggesting the disc is in backwards may be correct.

Before you pull it, make sure the bushing where the clutch cable attaches to the transmission didn;t disintegrate on you.

 

[javve]

I was very careful to make sure the friction disk was in properly. The engine side is against the engine.

The bushing was replaced. I had accidentally tossed the old one when it slipped off the cable onto the floor with all the other debris from the car.

That may be my next step, to remove the starter to check things out.

I also handled all the parts like I would a cd. I didn't touch the surface at all. I took alcohol and cleaned the pressure plate before it went in as well.

 

[jimtash]

I bought a brand new Sach's kit that gave me the same issues as you. The disc was defective from the get go.

 

[javve]

I bought a brand new Sach's kit that gave me the same issues as you. The disc was defective from the get go.

It's a Sachs kit I got too. What was defective about yours?

I really didn't want to have to take the transmission off again ugh

 

[shomethe$$$]

You are not very clear about the adjustments you made.

I haven't used a mechanical clutch engagement system on a SHO for a while but if I remember it has have some slack in it. How much back and forth movement do you have on your clutch pedal?
1/8" 1/4" 1/2" 1"?

Also check how much movement (slack) you have on the fork lever arm on the trans? 1/8" 1/4" 1/2" 1"?

Since no one answer this I will
Yes, it is possible to have a stretched cable and now with the new clutch not let it go into gear (or not let the clutch disc disengage). If you left the adjustment with a new clutch the same as it was with the old disc, the new disc needs more (TOB) travel to completely disengage the new disc (since the plate fingers are further from the TOB). But if your cable is stretched you won't have enough travel and it(the disc) won't disengage. This is why new clutch engage at the bottom of the pedal travel and as the clutch ages it engages higher and higher until you have to replace it. Because you pressure plate fingers are getting closer to your TOB.

I'm concluding you have a stretched cable(or bent lever) and an over adjustment(if someone tampered with the spacer on the clutch fork lever). Both will cause the issues you have. Both of which can be solved temporarily to check to make sure its not a defective disc.

Its almost impossible to get a clutch disc in backwards, the outer edges of the sprung hub will contact the taper on the flywheel so you won't be able to tighten down the pressure plate. You will certainly almost break (where the sprung hub contacts the flywheel) the disc while tightening it.

I have a Valeo disc and two flywheels sitting in storage and can check if you can actually do that, but I'm assuming you got it right.

Make the adjustments and report back.

 

[javve]

You are not very clear about the adjustments you made.

I'm concluding you have a stretched cable(or bent lever) and an over adjustment(if someone tampered with the spacer on the clutch fork lever). Both will cause the issues you have. Both of which can be solved temporarily to check to make sure its not a defective disc.

Its almost impossible to get a clutch disc in backwards, the outer edges of the sprung hub will contact the taper on the flywheel so you won't be able to tighten down the pressure plate. You will certainly almost break (where the sprung hub contacts the flywheel) the disc while tightening it.

I have a Valeo disc and two flywheels sitting in storage and can check if you can actually do that, but I'm assuming you got it right.

Make the adjustments and report back.

I wasn't able to make any adjustment. When I looked at the clutch, the auto adjustment was all the way toward the firewall. I tried to get it to move toward the front seat, but it wouldn't budge. Are you saying that it should be back toward the firewall on a new clutch?

I haven't dealt with auto adjust before.

Thanks

 

[jimtash]

Did you adjust the pedal release height by pulling up on the clutch pedal with your foot and then pushing it all the way in? Do that several times to get the slack out of the system. You should hear and feel a click in the pedal and that's when the cable is tensioned correctly.

Reading your original post, go back and recheck the ratchet mechanism in the pedal adjuster assembly. You might have it back together wrong. Easy way to know if the mechanism is working is to prop the clutch pedal up to release the tension and then pull on the cable end from the transmission. It should easily move when you pull on it and should also have enough tension to smoothly pull itself back. Pull on the cable til it completely stops moving. This will also reset the mechanism catch so after you reinstall the cable and release the pedal, don't be alarmed if the clutch pedal goes all the way to the floor. You then need to follow the procedure I wrote up above.

In my scenario, the adjusting mechanism wasn't fooled with at all and the tension procedure was followed. My first instinct was to replace the cable but it didn't fix the problem. The disc was defective and the problem was solved when it was replaced.

 

[javve]

Did you adjust the pedal release height by pulling up on the clutch pedal with your foot and then pushing it all the way in? Do that several times to get the slack out of the system. You should hear and feel a click in the pedal and that's when the cable is tensioned correctly.

Reading your original post, go back and recheck the ratchet mechanism in the pedal adjuster assembly. You might have it back together wrong. Easy way to know if the mechanism is working is to prop the clutch pedal up to release the tension and then pull on the cable end from the transmission. It should easily move when you pull on it and should also have enough tension to smoothly pull itself back. Pull on the cable til it completely stops moving. This will also reset the mechanism catch so after you reinstall the cable and release the pedal, don't be alarmed if the clutch pedal goes all the way to the floor. You then need to follow the procedure I wrote up above.

In my scenario, the adjusting mechanism wasn't fooled with at all and the tension procedure was followed. My first instinct was to replace the cable but it didn't fix the problem. The disc was defective and the problem was solved when it was replaced.

I forgot to mention that I did pull up on the pedal with my foot and pushed all the way down several times, but had mentioned I had it tied up to release the tension. It didn't adjust. I'll get it all back together and check the cable like you said from the outside. Where should the adjuster sit on the blue part of the assembly under the dash? Mine has been sitting all the way to the back (firewall) with all the teeth visible toward the front seat.

What are the signs the disc is defective? I think shomethe$$$ was hinting at using something to take up more slack on the cable under the hood as a temporary solution to see if it is the disc or not.

 

[shomethe$$$]

is it possible for you to get a c-clamp or locking channel or vice grip on the fork lever on the trans. if you can get one of those and compress it, if the car is in gear, it should start to roll once you've compressed it enough. So basically your tool is functioning as mechanism to compress the pressure plate and then press your clutch pedal, if it drops to the floor then you'll know you dont have enough cable to disengage the clutch. once it drops you can see the cable slack on the trans side, if you have some, the cable needs adjustment. and make sure that lever is straight.

 

[shomethe$$$]

btw way i checked the valeo disc i have against two sho flyhweels and i couldn't put it backwards without it hitting the flywheel, it left a about a 1/16" gap to the flywheel surface, the disc is good with a thickness of .300". i have a picture and can post it monday when i get back.

update: i had another disc from another manufacturer, that i was able to mount backwards but then i put the flywheels bolts in and it wouldn't let me lay the disc down flat, so you probably got it right.

 

[jimtash]

Put the car in 1st gear and then back neutral with the clutch pedal in and then let the pedal out. If you hear a clunk or feel a thump from the transaxle when letting the pedal out the disc is at fault. And that's because there's a delay in disengagement. Also when looking at the entire assembly, both the flywheel and pressure plate will exhibit signs of overheating.

 

[javve]

Been busy with school. Thank you so much for the replies.

shomethe$$$ I will do that. I have a c-clamp that I use for brakes. I am certain it is big enough to compress the fork.

jimtash I will have to try that out as well. Unless it is defective I am leaning toward it not being the disc. I was very careful and diligent that it was put in correctly. That will help at least give me an idea if there was a defect. I would presume this is with the car not running, since it isn't working right while running in the first place

 

[kevinspann]

Put the car in 1st gear and then back neutral with the clutch pedal in and then let the pedal out. If you hear a clunk or feel a thump from the transaxle when letting the pedal out the disc is at fault. And that's because there's a delay in disengagement. Also when looking at the entire assembly, both the flywheel and pressure plate will exhibit signs of overheating.

My car does something similar. Start releasing the clutch and it will engage harshly (THUNK!) and somewhat abruptly. I thought it was the 17lb billet flywheel, but I put the same clutch on a stock, resurfaced flywheel and it's much the same. Again, a Sachs kit.

 

[shomethe$$$]

If its just the issue of the clutch not disengaging, you can probably have the car on a slight slope, car off, and put it in gear and then press the clutch if its rolls back your good and take note of where it disengages at the top of the pedal or near the floor, if its near the floor then you probably need to adjust it. This is probably easier than my c-clamp method.

 

[javve]

Thanks for the reply. Kevin sounds like we have similar issues. Shomethe$$$, for me right now the c-clamp would be easier. I would have to push the car to where there is a hill and there is no way for me to get it back up.