914-SHO Project Thread

[hawkeye18]

OK, just tested the motor without the SPOUT #1 plug in place and it runs the same way. Same cyls are not getting spark. So that rules out the DIS - correct?

DISs fail in many fun and interesting ways. I myself have had three DISs fail on me, in three completely different ways. One was an intermittent stumble at idle, one was an intermittent, but frequent stumble at low load (but not idle or high load), and one was for not firing the middle coil at all. They do a lot.

 

[3d914]

Make sure your DIS is grounded to the negative terminal and so is the engine block, then..

Checked that earlier and its good.

Time to test your coil pack. Put a VOM across the red lead's pin and the second pin, write down what resistance you get. With one lead still on the red's pin, put the other lead on the next pin, write it down, and then do the final pin. All three coils should be pretty close in value. If all three are close go to next step.

Checked coil terminals with VBAT terminal:

1. 1.1 ohms
2. 1.1 ohms
3. 1.1 ohms

Test plug wires for very low resistance, write down what each cylinder's value is. I think the longest wire will be about 20 ohms.

Checked Wires:

1. 13.60K ohms
2. 11.67K ohms
3. 10.60K ohms
4. 10.23K ohms
5. 11.38K ohms
6. 10.22K ohms

The system function test asks the following: Is the resistance of the plug wires less than 30K ohms? If so, continue to check the plugs.

I still think you should check your compression.

Tom

Have extension on order. I'll also do the more detailed coil pack test from URL I posted earlier. First I have to get the crank pulley bolt off so I can double-check the crank index mark. Using the starter to loosen the bolt didn't work this time, and it ate my small flywheel lock - so I'm get a heavier one with the extension.

Keep ya posted.

 

[3d914]

DISs fail in many fun and interesting ways. I myself have had three DISs fail on me, in three completely different ways. One was an intermittent stumble at idle, one was an intermittent, but frequent stumble at low load (but not idle or high load), and one was for not firing the middle coil at all. They do a lot.

Jason, If I pulled the SPOUT plug - which bypasses the PCM/DIS and runs coil off the PIP signal - and it still failed to spark on #1 & #2 that should clear the DIS as being cause - correct?

 

[kevinspann]

I don't think so. Pulling the spout just locks the timing at 10 degrees. Oddly, I had a DIS that failed and also caused that.

 

[rubydist]

I would swap a known good DIS to be sure.

I would also swap the plug wires across the coil pack, as Tom suggested to see if that moves your "no spark" to the opposite 3 plugs.

 

[Shovert]

CASE 1: If you got Spark from both Coil Pack towers, this result confirms that the Ignition Coil is good. It also condemns the Spark Plug Wire as BAD. Replace all of the Spark Plug Wires as a set. Replacing the Spark Plug Wires (as a set) will solve the Misfire Condition and the Misfire Code lighting up the Check Engine Light (CEL) on the Instrument Cluster.

CASE 2: If you got Spark from only one Coil Pack tower, this result confirms that the Ignition Coil is BAD. Replacing the Ignition Coil Pack will solve the Misfire Condition and the Misfire Code lighting up the Check Engine Light (CEL) on the Instrument Cluster.

CASE 3: If you got NO Spark from both Coil Pack towers, then the next step is to verify that the PCM or Ignition Module is generating and feeding a Switching Signal to the individual Ignition Coil within the Coil Pack (that feeds Spark to the two towers you just tested).
This is sourcre.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford_coil_pack/ford_coilpack_tests_4.php
For a plug tester. I just broke off the end of plug. If it sparks to that it is good ignition.
You could add a clamp like in the picture easy enough. Maurice
Edit if need coil pack. I use this autoparts website and look under compatibility section to see what other cars beside the one I am working on also uses it. I looked up a 93 3.2 sho coil and list over 200 other cars that use it. I know the DIS is only used on the Supercoupe only. Buddy owes me my extra one.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...=Search_C2377_1138801_1291&pt=C2377&ppt=C0334

 

[3d914]

Well spent some time working this thing from different directions. I was able to borrow a coil pack & DIS from Rich - thanks again. Put the DIS on - no difference. Put the coil pack on - no difference. So as I was going around with the timing lite on each wire I put it on backwards and guess what? The magnetic sensor that is placed over the wire is directional & pointed toward the plug. That works great on the 4-6 bank. What I discovered by accidentally reversing the direction on the 1-3 side was that now I'm reading spark! Give me a break! I flipped it the right direction and sure enough it read zero.

On the good side of all that I did discover a much better way to test the spark on these motors. Since they have that deep recessed plug well, I just pulled the plug wire boot off the plug and centered it in the well near the top (while the motor is running). You can definitely see strong spark vs weak spark. And the best part is you don't get shocked in the process.

OK, so after all is said I am getting spark to all cyls. I put my parts back on after testing mine & his parts - all were close/within spec. The coil specs I found indicate the primary winding resistance should be .3 - .9 ohms. Both of ours tested at 1.1 ohms, which I'm sure my digital multimeter isn't much more accurate than .1-.2 ohms. The secondary resistance should be 11K - 17K ohms. Ours were in the 13K - 14.4K range.

I also checked the gap & tested the high voltage on the crank sensor. I couldn't find the spec, but it was up there around 12v. So the timing sensors have been checked and appear to be good. But its still running like crap and it won't idle without stumbling. I'm beginning to think like Tom that its probably mechanical. Should have the compression extension by the weekend, so stay tuned.

 

[Off Road SHO]

I'm beginning to think like Tom

You're Doomed.

Tom

 

[intimdatr]

Um, sorta an odd thought, you sure you have the injectors hooked up correctly to the corresponding plug? Had this issues on a RX7 a few years ago, would run pretty good once you rev'd it up but would never idle or make power on the low end.

 

[3d914]

Um, sorta an odd thought, you sure you have the injectors hooked up correctly to the corresponding plug? Had this issues on a RX7 a few years ago, would run pretty good once you rev'd it up but would never idle or make power on the low end.

Good thought. I know I spent some time on that because the wires end up on the wrong side for the injector - it connects from the back side. I'll check it again though.

 

[Off Road SHO]

And the wires on the left feed the injectors on the right and vice versa.

Tom

 

[Flintstone Chaz]

Well , one thing we have learned about Gerard is that he is not a quitter. I am certainly learning lots at his expense......so thanks!

Charlie

 

[sho'noff]

I wanted to be sure you all know to open the throttle(which is connected to the upper intake manifold) open it all the way while checking compression.

 

[3d914]

Finally got the extension to test compression. You'll never guess what's on the end of the extension - a nice handle. OK, but the nice handle runs right into the surge tank, so you can't install the bloody thing. Soooo - I just removed the intake and tank just so I can get the extension installed.

Now on with the cold compression results:

1. 160 psi
2. 148 psi
3. 150 psi
4. 157 psi
5. 133 psi
6. 161 psi

And you're probably think the same thin I am - so I added a tablespoon of oil to #5 and rechecked it. It went up to 160 psi. I also checked the valve clearances on that cyl and they are right at the low end of the allowable for both intake & exhaust.

I'm thinking the rings either got turned when I installed that piston or the honing wasn't as good as it looked.

Other thoughts?

 

[sho'noff]

Any vacuum leaks?

 

[rubydist]

just run it. run the heck out of it. check it a month after you get it installed and running in the car - it hopefully will have seated by then.

anyway, its within the 80% rule, although not optimal.

 

[Off Road SHO]

What Ruby said, just run it. At least two complete heat cycles. Let those rings have a chance to find home.

Like it.

Tom

 

[3d914]

Yeh, but what if I want more than that? Why not go for the 200+ in each cylinder - and have a screaming SHO?

Leaving it would be fine if I could get it to run properly and not stumble anywhere near idle. Not to mention the missing that occurs at all other rpms.

There are no obvious vacuum leaks, but I will be checking the injector seals. I also have one check left for the injector connections to make sure I don't have them wired to opposite sides, then I'll see where it goes.

 

[rubydist]

you will need a blower or higher compression pistons to get to 200+

its a math thing...

 

[3d914]

you will need a blower or higher compression pistons to get to 200+

its a math thing...

OK, so what's the stock compression? I thought it was around 200.

Finished another valve check - for sanity sake. Have one intake at .006", the rest are .0065" and above. I have two exhaust near the upper limit at .013" & .0135".

Also checked the injector wires and they are all good. I think it's time for an on-the-rail injector test.