91 Still not running... Here's the scoop - need suggestions!

[fredhurderjr]

I’m having BIG problems getting the 91 fired. We have changed the plugs, crank sensor, cam sensor, DIS. Timing is all lined up (& was already). We have fuel pressure (about 40psi while cranking), we have spark. Compression test = ~190psi front bank of cylinders. We have not changed the coil pack, the wires are (front – back, left to right) 465-321, the computer is a remanufactured 91 (L0S code). The car stumbles, stumbles best with no pressure on the gas pedal, after sitting for days. The oil sending line (near the drain plug?) has a significant leak. Other than that, I see nothing out of the ordinary. SHO Shop Y-Pipe & Cat-back, looks like new O2 sensors. It has a fresh “remanufactured” computer.

Previous owner had a 75 (77?) mm MAF with an LPM (2 actually), before he took it to the shop he put it back to the 55mm. He said he got it back from the “garage”, it drove 2-4 miles, & got to the point it is now.

Thanks for the feedback & suggestions ahead of time...

------------------
White 95 SHO MTX
"Jezebel"

Spends more time in the shop than in the driveway
Teases me with occasional great runs
3.2L SHO Shop Long Block
9psi Vortech S-Trim Supercharger (12psi on the way)
Eibachs, Tokicos, 96 Brakes, SFCs, STBs
PP Y-Pipe, Custom Stainless Cat-back, Bullets
http://members.home.com/fhurderjr/sho.htm

Mocha 91 SHO
"Monique"

 

[gregr]

You said the stock MAF is back in? You said you removed the LPM?

Sounds like most of the bases have been covered.

The only thing I saw weird in the post is your firing order. I'm sure you have it right, and I misinterpreted it.

Rear Bank left to right 1-2-3
Front Bank Left to right 4-5-6

Are all plugs getting spark?

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Greg Raciti
SHO Forum Webmaster

93 Emerald Green MTX
Performance Plus high flow stainless Y-pipe
Scott 2.5" Mandrel Bent Stainless
Exhaust with Edelbrock mufflers
SHOShop Cold Air Induction
SHOShop Underdrive Pullies (to be installed)
Romar Enterprises Subframe Connectors
SHO NUT Performance Aluminum Subframe Bushings
24mm front sway bar
26mm rear sway bar
Energy Suspension poly bushings

 

[fredhurderjr]

On the coil pack, Greg.
The OWNER never told me about those two - I caught him on eBay selling them. He called me tonight askign for a copy of the bill of sale so he can go to court over the "fly-by-night" garage that did the computer replacement on him (supposedly unauthorized).

Stock MAF, no LPM.

Coil Pack:
Rear of Car

5 1
6 2
4 3

Front of car

This is per a 95 Helm manual.

 

[gregr]

OK Fred. Gotcha.

Maybe this is not electrical at all.

This sounds weird, but follow me on this one.

I have a little piece of crap Saturn SC2 car. I had a similar problem with stubling at idle speeds. As well as when the car was cold. I search everywhere for answers. Plugs, wires, etc.

After sitting a while, the PS fluid leaked out. STarted it up and no stumble. No PS either. As the car ran, I began to fill the PS resevoir with fluid. As I added the fluid, the car began to stumble. The bad PS pump was loading the engine down. Same deal happened to this car when the AC pulley bearing burned up. Sounds dumb, but make sure all the accessories spin freely. It's a long shot, but it fixed my Saturn's problems!

Good luck my friend.



------------------
Greg Raciti
SHO Forum Webmaster

93 Emerald Green MTX
Performance Plus high flow stainless Y-pipe
Scott 2.5" Mandrel Bent Stainless
Exhaust with Edelbrock mufflers
SHOShop Cold Air Induction
SHOShop Underdrive Pullies (to be installed)
Romar Enterprises Subframe Connectors
SHO NUT Performance Aluminum Subframe Bushings
24mm front sway bar
26mm rear sway bar
Energy Suspension poly bushings

 

[RStalveyARFF]

Fred, once I get some decent rubber on my car (one tire is down through the steel belt) I'll come down and you can try my computer.

 

[fredhurderjr]

Thanks Greg. I never even thought of something like that.

 

[sdpatt]

Fred, the sender near the oil pan drain plug is the oil level sender. And as you know, they CAN leak.

I would definitely try SHO91MTX's computer. Something sounds odd about the source of the one in there now.

Scott

 

[slosho]

Will the eec go into a diagnostic mode?

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95' ATX Opal Frost
Cone Filter W/ heat shield
TB coolant Bypass
Bypassed a "PCV" line
Fog light mod
Reverse light mod
Sony head unit (el cheapo cdx-650)
JL Monoblock 500
JL 2-12w3's
Rear tint
More to come.

 

[bigdoggee]

I had the same problem... After checking the timming belt and changing the plugs I couldn't get my car to fire up. The problem was... I had taken the left side chamber/runner (not sure of the offical name of it) to get access to the timing belt. Well to make a long story short, there are two bolts that hold that left chamber on and the car will not start unless those two bolts are screwed back in. From what I been told... the DIS is grounded there. Hope this helps!!

 

[fredhurderjr]

DIS is grounded correctly. We haven't checked fuel & spark on each cylinder yet, just a couple on the front bank (obvious bank choice there).

Mark N. suggests swapping out the L0S box for an X2J, after verifying spark & fuel. He thinks it's fuel-related.

I'm going to round up a spare (/borrowed) 89-92 coil pack asap & try again. Seems SHO Nut has 2 coil pack P/N's listed, so I don't want to rob from my 95.

Thanks, & please keep the idea flowing. I'd like to get her running before it gets REALLY cold.

 

[Jay97SHO]

Fred,if I get my gas tank installed,and she runs,you can borrow any parts you need.Gas tank should be arriving today

Jason

 

[SHOTIME]

Fred, Blue has your coil pack and computer covered.
See you friday night ish..

------------------

Eric
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/billebobob/index.html

 

[Jay97SHO]

What about cleaning the contact areas where the computer and chip go? They might be dirty if the guy had everything changed...

Jason

 

[fredhurderjr]

Jay -
The computer's contacts look fine, we pulled it out last night. There is no LPM anymore - the guy HAD one in there, along with a different MAF, but put it back to stock when he had problems with it. I'm wondering if the LPM fried the computer or something.

FYI people, Ford Dealer price on a new computer is $315.54 & is a special order item.

 

[Jay97SHO]

Originally posted by fredhurderjr:
Jay -
The computer's contacts look fine, we pulled it out last night. There is no LPM anymore - the guy HAD one in there, FYI people, Ford Dealer price on a new computer is $315.54 & is a special order item.

I had meant that he had everything changed BACK to stock. Maybe the garage bent a pin connector,or pinched a wire when they put it back together. You know how careless some garages are.
Check eBay. I think I saw a computer on there yesterday.

Good luck,Fred.

 

[fredhurderjr]

Yeah, when we had the 'puter out I checked for a bent / missing pin. I thought you meant the LPM slide-on connector. Sorry. The computer on eBay is a different code (B9B / 1989).

I'm hesitant to buy anything off that '89 - look at the DIS auction from the guy & check out the crossover tube in the pic - looks like it's bent!

 

[SHOfear]

I dunno if this will help, but it might reaffirm that the computer is shot. My computer in my 93 mtx one day just stopped working. No warning, nothing, boom, dead. It would start with a lot of cranking, and run really rough. It smoked out the exhasut from unburned gas (ran extremely lean.) I would shut it down, and it would not start until the next day. And when it did run, i could push the pedal all the way down, and it didn't do any good, the car would just bog and putt along at about 10 mph, no faster. Similar problems, i might say computer related. Hope this helps a little.

Steve

 

[Huntervf]

Have you tried a human sacrifice yet? Sometimes you need to appease the SHO god, espically if you've recently lost to an F-body or an import with a big wing.

I'd also suggest donning a hooded black robe, surround your SHO with 103 candles, and chant the following:

Oooo bah bah bah Oooo bah bah bah yeyeyeyeaah

If this doesn't work the first time you may need to repeat the procedure with a couple friends and some fresh chicken bones.

I've had similar problems to what you've been describing and these procedures have always helped me in the past. You won't find these fixes in the Helm's, but most Ford service manuals list them, if you need additional references.

And if it still doesn't work, you could always call Cleo for your free readin'

------------------
Chris Smith
SVT/SHO Society
Taurus SHO Representative
http://svt.sho.tripod.com
89 SHO MTX Light Titanium 122k, Mi. License 1ST SHO, Konig Reign 16 x 7.5 rims, Kuhmo 225/50VR 16's, fender airbox removed, 91+ badges, CincySHO police grill, Covercraft hood protector, silver underhood trim, Pilot driving lamps, Sony Xplod deck, Performance Plus reinforced front mount, Performance Plus y-pipe, Dynomax Magnum bullet race mufflers w/3.5 stainless tips, Eibach springs, KYB struts, MOOG control arms, Royal Purple synthetic lubricants, custom "long throw" shifter, fresh paint, Jolly Roger insignias, trophy winning and NOW in storage for the winter!
95 SHO MTX Silver Frost 92k SOLD 4.14.01 but not forgotton!
96 Contour SE ATX V6 Midnight Red(wife's car) 91k, custom grill & badging, otherwise stock & under warranty
93 Dodge Spirit 2.5 I4 ATX flat white 4 banger winter beater, 116k & struggling upwards

 

[SilverSHO]

------------------
Nick
Lt. Titanium 90 135k
Coneless, ACCEL 8.8 stainless steel wires,
SHO Shop torque limiters, Cherry Bomb Turbo II mufflers
AIM: loudog6491

 

[SHOTIME]

If fred, Rickie and my knuckles count, We have tried the human sacrifice.

And I chanted ALOT of swear words at the car.. that didnt help.

Chicken bones = wrenches. That didnt help.

In freds possesion the car hasnt lost to a thing yet, Perfect record, SO it cant be mad.. And the car must know that fred will treat it better than the past owner..

Perhaps she is jeaolous of Jezi with the supercharger and built engine. But then, Everyone needs to have a big brother right?

Come on monique.. You can do it..

------------------

Eric
mailto:[email protected][email protected]</A>
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/billebobob/index.html