238,000 miles no cam weld.

[SHODWN]

RacerX, that's for the compliment

By the way people.. why in the world would you take driving style out the equation? It obviously makes a difference. But again.. there are way too many variables in order to prove why 1 cam fails over another.. but we do know the general reason.. as RacerX so.. uuhh elegantly put.

Hey Kirk.. while I have your attention: http://www.nesho.com/Gen 3 SHO MTX.htm

How much are thoes going for?

Im changing the way om going to sell them, I was only going to do the installs, but im going to make the kits just to sell and hope that people can do them. Keep looking over the next few months all the info will be up there, Ive kind of forgotten about them since the new car came in.

Sorry.

I was going to say that Ive done almost 3000, id say all the others have done about the same.. roughly call it 6k welded, 10 that were pinned. Also I have titles for close to 200 gen 3's that I have scrapped since 01, Ray in Mich has more I bet! plus all the guys who have bought and scrapped them. And all the crashed ones..

My best guess and thats all it is.. 10k left in total and 6k welded...

 

[Racer X]

Izzy!!! Dont leave dude.. Sometimes this (kinda ****** on one another) is the best way to learn...

Just whip a number out there.. there is no wrong number because we dont know.. Nobody does.. But I have a number of ones that were fixed (pretty close guesses) lets see how it comes out.

Hamal, thanks for the long explanition I was not typeing that all out! But you should promote NESHO some more than you do! Otherwise next time I see you Im going to pull your Huggiebear hat down over your eyes so you dont see the dissimliar metals cam heading for your Ass! Plus I wont haul your shit no more!:laugh_ti:

No sweat man, first few innings were slow.

And were you the one who absconded with my hat? If so...

...come up off my hat, son.

AND WOW!!! ROBINSON CANO WITH THE NINJA CATCH!!! DID YOU SEE THAT??!!!

Back on topic...

GAME TWO GOES TO THE YANKEES!!!!!!!!

Sorry...

On the NESHO promo... can I get a sticker or something? :thankyou:

 

[sholover719]

We don't need an on ramp to do that sort of thing, any old winding back road will do, yung'in.



pax, smn

well for that matter, im never on an on ramp to a highway anyways im always running the back roads to work at close to 60+ mph and my car still sees that kinda high rpm so i know all about the old winding back road thing.

 

[Izzmo]

Im changing the way om going to sell them, I was only going to do the installs, but im going to make the kits just to sell and hope that people can do them. Keep looking over the next few months all the info will be up there, Ive kind of forgotten about them since the new car came in.

Sorry.

I was going to say that Ive done almost 3000, id say all the others have done about the same.. roughly call it 6k welded, 10 that were pinned. Also I have titles for close to 200 gen 3's that I have scrapped since 01, Ray in Mich has more I bet! plus all the guys who have bought and scrapped them. And all the crashed ones..

My best guess and thats all it is.. 10k left in total and 6k welded...

Good enough for me sir.. you win!

 

[SHODWN]

Good enough for me sir.. you win!

Quiter!

 

[RonPorter]

What you say hardly makes sense.

The sprockets are press fitted onto the cams (in a very simple sense). Yes there are manufacturing defaults, but it's simple physics, one of which you cannot deny. If you are driving your car like a "granny" (under 3k rpms all the time), then you will have a smaller chance of cam failure than ones who is above 3k a lot. You have torque created by the combustion of the engine which is transferred to the crank, which is transferred to the cams (by chain) and then to the sprocket and cam itself. So, the higher the torque, the better chance of the sprocket slipping.

There will always be manufacturer defects, and I think we can all agree that press fitting was not the best route to go, but there were not as many defected cams as you say. There are way more SHO's still active today without welded cams than there are welded.

What YOU say hardly makes sense. The cams fight against the spring tension, which never changes regardless of the rpm (or is it rmps???.....I dunno, I'm not 19 anymore!!). The engine is constantly changing rpm. It doesn't know if your foot is in it or not.

And remember that this cam design was also used on the other modular engines, and they didn't have the issues that this one does.

 

[stephen newberg]

My best guess and thats all it is.. 10k left in total and 6k welded...

I think that sounds very reasonable, considering the time that has gone by and the nature of the DOA problem. And though it might take some time for it to happen, I suspect eventually that any of those left that are not welded will drop out, as will some of the welded ones, though likely for different reasons.

This keeps up, the car will be a classic and its value will start going up after more time.

pax, smn

 

[zak]

The cams fight against the spring tension, which never changes regardless of the rpm (or is it rmps???.....I dunno, I'm not 19 anymore!!). The engine is constantly changing rpm. It doesn't know if your foot is in it or not.
.

The cheif stresses on the valvetrain are very much dynamic in nature - at higher RPMs the camshaft(s) is spinning faster, and therefore must accelerate the valves off their seats more aggressively. Therfore, rpm's play a signficant role in stresses throughout the valvetrain (including, obviously, drive sprockets). These are not small forces - it takes around 20 hp at idle to drive a 32 valve valvetrain on something like a V8 SHO.

While SHODWNs newbie observation that more camfailures occur in cold weather (attributing this to thermal expansion mismatch between the sprocket and camshaft tube) can certainly be a signficant driver, saying that elevated RPM stresses acting at the sprocket do not change with rpm level is a fallacy.

 

[stephen newberg]

True. I was serious when I said all sides on this have mentioned things that might have bearing from a physics standpoint, but without a very detailed study, it would be difficult to actually say the levels of accountability for failure each has, plus a couple of other things that have not as yet been really discussed. Plus, as to really know would require a fair number of tests to destruction under instrumented conditions with varying circumstances for each; and since this is not going to happen, it is simplest to just say there is some validity to each of the points but none are by themselves "the answer".

pax, smn

 

[jimtash]

Mine has 61K on it and I'm actively seeking someone to weld them that won't BS me around.

 

[Izzmo]

The cheif stresses on the valvetrain are very much dynamic in nature - at higher RPMs the camshaft(s) is spinning faster, and therefore must accelerate the valves off their seats more aggressively. Therfore, rpm's play a signficant role in stresses throughout the valvetrain (including, obviously, drive sprockets). These are not small forces - it takes around 20 hp at idle to drive a 32 valve valvetrain on something like a V8 SHO.

While SHODWNs newbie observation that more camfailures occur in cold weather (attributing this to thermal expansion mismatch between the sprocket and camshaft tube) can certainly be a signficant driver, saying that elevated RPM stresses acting at the sprocket do not change with rpm level is a fallacy.

Thank you! Finally someone has the same point as me.

 

[stephen newberg]

It was pretty obvious if you have any physics in your background. But as I mentioned above, as we are not really ever going to actually know how to apportion causation, fighting about it is really not worth while. There were interesting points on all sides.

pax, smn

 

[Ian Macoomb]

Wow, now this place is becoming www.camfailure.com. How ****.

 

[Izzmo]

Discussing.. just.. discussing.

 

[chrism3784]

Cam Failure, popping diff pins, failing automatics. All SHOs have problems.

 

[stephen newberg]

Cam Failure, popping diff pins, failing automatics. All SHOs have problems.

-All- cars have problems, and as a generalization, the higher performance the orientation, the more the problems. With the obvious exception of the New 2010 SHO, the newest previous SHO is not a decade old, and most are well older than that. Nothing lasts forever in the area of mechanical devices. That is just reality.

So far I have had great luck with my '98. It is toward the quicker side of the overall group of Gen IIIs, and has had very few mechanical problems. At 190k or so the transmission still works fine and the motor still runs like a Swiss watch. There is no rust of note on the body or structural members. In general, the car is doing fine. But, as with any aging machine, there are things. She is on her second alternator, and though this one has gone a long ways I am starting to hear it a bit, which is a sign it will not be running a huge distance more. There are squeaks around the interior when on rough roads that I can no longer find and eliminate, which is irritating. The rear sway bar bushings need changing (again!). And the 3rd battery just went in so she will start reliably all winter. But none of that is unusual on a car with lots of miles and years. Complaining about stuff like that is the same as complaining about entropy.

pax, smn