normal life of a CPS?

[USHOMEISHOU]

Has anyone had problems with their Crank Position Sensor only lasting so long? the reason I ask is I'm currently experiencing symptoms of a CPS failure and it is about 2 years old, I replaced it shortly after purchasing the car. The service records indicate that it had been replaced about 2 years before that, so I'm looking at a service life of 2 years?


FYI, no my waterpump is NOT leaking

 

[93rev2sev]

No premature failures here.

 

[hawkeye18]

I've never heard of two CPSs failing within two years in a row that wasn't caused by an external source.

 

[USHOMEISHOU]

here's my problem (i did a search but can't find any definative answers)

Yesterday the car started bucking and died, I pulled over and it started right back up however now the tach doesn't work at all and the CEL is on. It is hard to start but when it does, it runs fine but once again CEL and no tach. this isn't how the CPS went out last time but when i did search it was about 50/50 on the DIS and the CPS.

any input? I think I might just replace both and go from there

 

[hawkeye18]

Ummm.... check your cam sensor. A bad cam sensor can cause much the same symptoms of a crank sensor, but the hard starting gives it away as the cam sensor. Change it before you start digging into the DIS (although it could certainly be bad as well).

 

[USHOMEISHOU]

Thanks, forgot to post the codes tho
KOEO= 157, 211, 214, 528, 542.
KOER= 536

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Generally, you can differentiate the crank sensor [intermittent] failure from camshaft identification sensor [intermittent] failure by whether it dies or not. For the most part . . .

• both will set codes and throw a check engine light
  
  
• intermittent Crankshaft Sensor Failure - tachometer always rapidly drops to "zero" rpms, and the engines dies as if the key has been moved to the "Off" position. May or may not restart immediately, and will run normally once it starts until it fails again.
  
  
• intermittent Camshaft Identification Sensor Failure - tachometer may or may not show rpm loss (ie. rapidly drop to "zero" rpms), and the engine may die, or run rough (minor to noticeable miss), or run as if there is nothing wrong. May or may not restart immediately, and may or may not run rough with a discernable miss once restarted.

Again, these are generalizations and assume that there are no other "compounding" problems at the time. The important thing to remember is, to look at how the tach is responding when the engine begins to bog, cutout, or die - as long as you don't have to sacrifice safety in monitoring the tach.

 

[USHOMEISHOU]

I have no tach reading whatsoever, hard start, idles fine, runs fine, dies occasionally.

 

[USHOMEISHOU]

I FOUND THE PROBLEM!!!:hdance:

anybody have any extra Cam Position Sensor screws???!?!?


Mine are GONE! cam position sensor came out and that's been the problem

any help is GREATLY appreciated

 

[Storm-Chaser]

I have EVERYTHING . . . .


. . . . the problem is finding it !


I do have a set of four (4). I'll start looking for them, and will update tomorrow evening when I get online whether I've found them or not.

 

[frosho]

IIRC the DIS screws are the same size/pitch if you have any of those lying around.

 

[hawkeye18]

I love it when I'm right. Hang on a minute and I'll get you the thread pitch / length of those screws.

 

[USHOMEISHOU]

:thankyou:

yessir you are the man

 

[hawkeye18]

Camshaft Sensor to Cylinder Head (R) M6 x 1.0 7.5·10

Camshaft Shutter to Camshaft Right EXT. M4 x 0.7 2.5-2.5

Honestly I don't know which is which, but FWIW the DIS bolts are also M4 x 0.7. The last number is the torque values. I think it's the first one.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

I presume you're talking about the two bolts that hold the camshaft sensor in the camshaft sensor housing that bolts to the [rear] head.

M6 x 1.0mm (camshaft sensor to cylinder head)

M4 x 0.7mm (camshaft sensor to sensor housing)

M4 x 0.7mm (ignition module to surge tank connector)
​

What I'm not sure of, is whether both the camshaft sensor and DIS module bolts are the same length, or use the same hex head size.

 

[Storm-Chaser]

I think that's a typo for the second camshaft sensor bolt description in the SHO book, as the sensor bolts to the sensor housing. Btw, those torque values are in Nm (Newton meters).

Camshaft Sensor to Cylinder Head (R) M6 x 1.0 7.5·10

Camshaft Shutter to Camshaft Right EXT. M4 x 0.7 2.5-2.5

Honestly I don't know which is which, but FWIW the DIS bolts are also M4 x 0.7. The last number is the torque values. I think it's the first one.

 

[hawkeye18]

you mean you don't torque all your bolts in newton-metres?...

 

[Storm-Chaser]

I have both of the camshaft sensor bolts in front of me. Based on my memory of the DIS bolts, I would not use them as a substitute. The camshaft sensor bolts are both different in design as well as longer in length.

One, the camshaft sensor bolts have a turned-down shaft to make them easier to start.

Two, in addition to being longer, they have an integrated washer that is larger in diameter than the shoulder of the hex head on the DIS bolts. This is to prevent the bolt from pulling-through the plastic sensor housing, as well as to distribute the load to prevent the plastic housing from cracking.

The bolts require a 7/32" (5.5mm) socket.

IIRC the DIS screws are the same size/pitch if you have any of those lying around.

:wave:

 

[Storm-Chaser]

Actually, I believe all the Craftsman torque-wrenches have both scales on the handle.

I tell you what, I'll take you to where I changed the cam sensor in November, at 2030 on a Friday evening, and will see if you would care to take time to properly torque those bolts . . . .

you mean you don't torque all your bolts in newton-metres?...

Ah, newton is over-rated.

 

[Tecchie]

I have a similar problem, you see when my tach drops to zero, the engine still idles and drives fine, no bucking, power loss, hesitation or dieing.

Ask GuruComputers about that one, it sat idleing in his driveway while we talked shop for nearly thirty minutes and never died, I even drove it home, and on the way home the tach picked back up and no problems after that.


When I did shut it off after getting to his house (tach dropped to zero on the way) it was a hard start, but still fired up and ran fine...

MY question is, there are no codes stores, none come up for KEOE or KEOR tests other than when I plugged in a tester and ran the KOER test (while engine running) the only thing the code reader told me was that it couldn't control the idle speed during the test, but I watched the tach go up and down during the balance test, and all that junk.....

the Crank Sensor is still factory as far as I am aware (vehicle has 206k+ on her...miles that is...) of and also I thin the cam sensor is factory as well..

Should I just replace both? I did pull the DIS module ( the thing on the side of the intake) from a wrecked-but-otherwise-perfect low mileage red '93 ATX (Mine is a '95)

Any ideas?