Oh my god, I want to become an hero!

[SHO GoDz 89]

"an hero" means to create a lolicoaster by ending ones life.

I've been struggling with my SHO for the past month. I've changed the timing belt (after 3 weeks of trying to get the damn crank bolt off....which Area 91 got off in 5 minutes :thankyou: )
and still, it seems like my timing is off.

Everyone I talk to says timing. I'm pretty sure I did the timing belt correctly.
But I was reading on RCM that the Dayco timing belts are sometimes marked incorrectly, which could be why my timing issue didn't get solved when I changed the belt.
I ordered the correct belt from RCM, and I'm hoping that it will work.

If not, I'm going to have to check under my valve covers and see if the chains skipped a link.

The thing is, this problem happened immediately AFTER I changed my water pump. The only thing that could have been affected is the timing belt.
Once I started the SHO back up after I did the water pump, everything went to shit. It hasn't run right since I put the new pump on.

Is there ANYTHING (electronics wise) that could cause similar symptoms to bad timing? Crank sensor maybe (water dripped down on it after I removed the pump...although there was no electricity going through it and it was cold).
Cam sensor? I accidentally dripped some PS fluid on it.

DIS?
Coil?

I am thoroughly confused and very frustrated.

Any suggestions or should I just take a sledge hammer to my car right now?

 

[Kean_SHO]

Sorry, im not sure the history here...What are your symptoms?

 

[matasho]

does the DIS have a very good ground? is your crank sensor new? is it plugged in? i know it sounds dumb but it happens. is the small wire that goes to the ecm plugged in its by the power steering reservoir, small black plug. if unplugged the car just cranks. do you have a chip of any kind, superchip, hypertech, lpm, if not plugged in all the way the car wont start. if your certain that the belt is on correctly than it sounds like you have an electrical problem.
and just food for thought when i had a crank sensor go bad the car had spark, fuel, and turned over just fine. and if i cranked enough on it the car would backfire something fierce. and everyone said everything but crank sensor. i even put in a cam sensor. but when i actually replaced the crank sensor and the washed down spark plugs the car fired up on first crank. but that was just my experience.

 

[Kean_SHO]

sorry i just reread your post... from what i understand i dont think your crank position sensor is usually working or not. if its not working you would have no spark. i would suspect the cam position sensor. The cam position sensor helps to adjusts the timing. a good check for this is to start the car, then unplug the sensor. if the idle changes (ie. runs, but runs very rough) then the sensor is working.
The other things to check are your wires, plugs, and plug wells. I had a problem with oil or water in the plug wells. over time enough oil or water can build up to short out the wire. The symptom for me was that it felt like half the motor was cutting out. RPMs seemed fine, but the sound was very rough, and very gimped on power.
ah yea, and the grounding strap is great suggestion too.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

You don't need a new timing belt to get it set right. Just line the crank up on its mark on the oil pump, and line the cam gears up and put the belt on and it's timed. Also you didn't happen to put the timing belt on "backwards" did you? IIRC The lettering should be easy to read if you are on the drivers side of the car, if you're on the passenger side it should be upside down. When you did the crank was its dot lined up at 5 or 7 o'clock? It should be at about 5, if it was at 7, you put the timing belt on backwards

 

[SHO GoDz 89]

sorry i just reread your post... from what i understand i dont think your crank position sensor is usually working or not. if its not working you would have no spark. i would suspect the cam position sensor. The cam position sensor helps to adjusts the timing. a good check for this is to start the car, then unplug the sensor. if the idle changes (ie. runs, but runs very rough) then the sensor is working.
The other things to check are your wires, plugs, and plug wells. I had a problem with oil or water in the plug wells. over time enough oil or water can build up to short out the wire. The symptom for me was that it felt like half the motor was cutting out. RPMs seemed fine, but the sound was very rough, and very gimped on power.
ah yea, and the grounding strap is great suggestion too.

The car runs, but very rough. The throttle response sucks, and when you step on the gas, it back fires. It also has no power what so ever.
Sometimes the idle will smooth out and it will seem to run fine, but once you get into gear and move, it happens all over again. It is also running very rich.

You don't need a new timing belt to get it set right. Just line the crank up on its mark on the oil pump, and line the cam gears up and put the belt on and it's timed. Also you didn't happen to put the timing belt on "backwards" did you? IIRC The lettering should be easy to read if you are on the drivers side of the car, if you're on the passenger side it should be upside down. When you did the crank was its dot lined up at 5 or 7 o'clock? It should be at about 5, if it was at 7, you put the timing belt on backwards

I put the belt on correctly, the crank gear was in the right position and so were the cams. The belt was not readable from the passenger side.

 

[gmorrell]

Did you have all the spark plugs out when you set the timing belt tension?

This is where you turn the crank a few turns clockwise while the timing belt tensioner bolt is loose. This puts all the slack on the tensioner side of the belt, then you tighten the idler fixing bolt.

If the plugs are installed during this operation, it's quite possible that the belt jumped, and you didn't catch it.

Turn the crank to set TDC #1 on the crank pulley and the timing indicator, then pull the upper timing cover and check the belt sprocket alignment marks against the lines on the sprocket back-plate.

Report back.

 

[93rev2sev]

That...and make DAMN SURE your spark plug wires are routed corerctly...see the sticky.

switching 4 and 5 will do exactly what you are describing. Even if you've double checked it...go back and TRIPLE check it.

 

[38SHO]

sorry to get off topic here...

but what in the **** is putting on a timing belt backwards gonna do? its a symetrical ribbed piece of rubber.........

you need to go back and cover your ass from the water pump job... this seems obvious no? thats when the car started acting up...... maybe you pinched a wire on the harness for it.... if I were you, I'd be all over that crank sensor making sure everything is fine.... also check grounds.......

 

[NEp8ntballer]

sorry to get off topic here...

but what in the **** is putting on a timing belt backwards gonna do? its a symetrical ribbed piece of rubber.........

you need to go back and cover your ass from the water pump job... this seems obvious no? thats when the car started acting up...... maybe you pinched a wire on the harness for it.... if I were you, I'd be all over that crank sensor making sure everything is fine.... also check grounds.......

indexing marks would line up but they wouldn't be properly positioned in relation to the crank...maybe

TPS maybe, or possibly crank cancer. did you check the woodruff key when you had crank pulley off.

 

[Reboticon]

Measure voltage between your negative battery terminal, and random metal spots on your car. If you find any places that have voltage, add a ground wire from there.. I would also be suspect of the dayco belt and more importantly the guy who sold it to you.. Did you check to make sure it was the right number?

 

[itwonder]

Make sure the reference marks are lined up as in these photos, and make sure the belt is not on backwards. Note the orientation of the writing; this is a Gates belt:

Embossed dot on the sprocket aligns with white line on belt and raised reference mark on oil pump housing -- This belt can be used on the 3.2L or 3.0L, and the photo shows it installed on a 3.0L.


Embossed dot on sprocket aligns with white line on belt and raised mark on dust shield:




Remember that once the engine is run, the white lines on the belt won't line up anymore...they align only when the belt is first installed. The dots will always align with the reference marks.

Note the direction of the white lettering on the belt; this ensures the belt is not on backwards.

 

[Reboticon]

I see why putting it on backwards would matter now but.. can you explain to me why the white marks on the belt won't line up anymore? I believe you but I don't understand why.

 

[SHO GoDz 89]

Measure voltage between your negative battery terminal, and random metal spots on your car. If you find any places that have voltage, add a ground wire from there.. I would also be suspect of the dayco belt and more importantly the guy who sold it to you.. Did you check to make sure it was the right number?

I bought the belt from Rockauto a while ago. It was for my 89. It obviously fits, but I did read on sho phoenix that sometimes they are marked incorrectly.

I'll need to check everything again. Maybe I have a bad DIS and or Coil...both of which I have good working ones. I just need to go back home to get them.

 

[Kean_SHO]

I see why putting it on backwards would matter now but.. can you explain to me why the white marks on the belt won't line up anymore? I believe you but I don't understand why.

It doesn't line up anymore because the length of belt from the crank to the rear cam sprocket is greater than the length from the front cam sprocket to the crank. The reason the belt is marked is to ensure you have the correct amount of grooves in the belt lined up with the teeth on the sprockets (ie. too much slack on one side of the belt causing it to slip one or two teeth off).

This is a great picture...

 

[38SHO]

I see your guy's point, and it makes sense with that belt

but I've also seen timing belts without marks....

 

[itwonder]

I see your guy's point, and it makes sense with that belt but I've also seen timing belts without marks....

The white marks on the belt are an installation aid to verify that you have no slack in the front run of the belt, or between the cam pulleys, when you slide the belt on. As you can see in the photo, all the slack in the belt is taken up by the tensioner in the rear. A belt without marks would certainly be useable, just more error prone at installation.

Kean_SHO did an outstanding job of explaining why the marks march when the engine turns. They will eventually align again after xx,*** thousands of revolutions, but you are not likely to see it happen

 

[SHO GoDz 89]

I had my belt markings lined up perfectly when I did the belt, but has anyone else ever had an issue with Dayco timing belts? RCM claims some of them are marked incorrectly. I've checked the pics, and they pretty much match mine, but I suppose it is possible for the marks to both be moved over one tooth thus putting slack on the non-tensioner side.

 

[gmail]

like was said the belt marks make no difference as long as the cams and crank are lined up and you have no excess slack on the non tentioner side you could put the belt on backwards and it wouldnt matter.

remember like in the pictures shown use the crank sprocket on the 5 o clock position and the cams at 12 o clock and there shouldnt be a issue..

the cam chain timing shouldnt be off... i never heard of that being off without someone manually changing it so just focus on the front timing belt.

take it off do it again... once the belt is on fire it up... you dont need all the accessories on to start it and run for a few seconds.. just make sure the cross over tube is on and the bolts are in tight to make sure that DIS has a ground.. also i doubt you touched it but make sure the grounding strap is on tight.

the DIS not being grounded properly will upset the engine in a hurry.
gotta be a paint free tight connection with the rest of the engine and then chassis of the car

 

[Reboticon]

Ok.. are you guys saying the white marks wont lineup with both the cam gears and the timing cover marks? That makes sense to me. What doesnt make sense to me is that the white marks arent going to line up with the timing cover marks every time it makes a full revolution. I understand why they wont match up with the cam gears. Or am I still missing something?