Cold air intake really worth it?

[steelgiant5]

Fuel needs oxygen to burn... So all engines need oxygen, and get it from air. However, opening the engine to the environment Willy Nilly is a terrible idea fraught with danger to the engine internals, so the air supply gets filtered. I believe a CAI affords 2 improvements over the stock air filtration system: A higher flow of air, and ideally, colder air, which is more dense, so also equates to more air at once. More air means more oxygen which means you burn more fuel to keep the air/fuel mix in proper balance. Therefore, more air = more fuel = MORE POWER.

And we like more power. More power is good.

Maybe on a real "cold air intake" not the junk that is sold for our cars. If the filter is under the hood it's not a cold air intake in my opinion.

 

[SilverSH0]

Maybe on a real "cold air intake" not the junk that is sold for our cars. If the filter is under the hood it's not a cold air intake in my opinion.

On many cars the cold air intake is inside the engine bay and they use large "snorkels" to pull air in from somewhere outside the engine bay. I don't see any difference between the filter being outside the engine bay vs a large snorkel. Either way there's a larger diameter pipe pulling cooler air from outside of the hot engine bay.

I don't know how the design is specifically for these cars. Just stating that the filter doesn't need to be outside the engine bay to work.

 

[steelgiant5]

On many cars the cold air intake is inside the engine bay and they use large "snorkels" to pull air in from somewhere outside the engine bay. I don't see any difference between the filter being outside the engine bay vs a large snorkel. Either way there's a larger diameter pipe pulling cooler air from outside of the hot engine bay.

What kit actually pulls air from the outside? I understand the filter under the hood does not matter.

This is a waste of money... No matter the brand.. It does not do anything the stock one can't. In the description it says the piping is molded so the mass air sensor readings are not affected... No mass air on these cars...

 

[SilverSH0]

Like I stated earlier, I don't know the specifics on these cars. Coming from the Mustang world there were several filters that had a "snorkel" that fit down through the inner fender to pull air from outside the engine bay. The point was that "filter is under the hood it's not a cold air intake" isn't really true because filter location doesn't really matter.

 

[steelgiant5]

Like I stated earlier, I don't know the specifics on these cars. Coming from the Mustang world there were several filters that had a "snorkel" that fit down through the inner fender to pull air from outside the engine bay. The point was that "filter is under the hood it's not a cold air intake" isn't really true because filter location doesn't really matter.

Completely agree with this, the air is coming from an area away from the engine bay. That is a real cold air intake. This crap that is sold for the sho is not

 

[rcryniak]

Interesting discussion. It seems however, that the larger filter does allow a larger volume of air (less constricted), not necessarily that the air itself is colder than stock on these cars (that makes sense since the aperture to the outside is the same either way)... so call it a CAI or not, it's presumably a larger volume of air (and we may not have mass air SENSORS, but the car does calculate air mass - knowing the amount of oxygen is required for controlling air/fuel mixture.)

Bottom line, vendors like Livernois have done their due diligence and measured with/without the CAI on the dyno, and got more power off these things, so regardless of the theory behind it, you're either going to see more power, even if a little. Since more O2 means more power, it's either an increase in density from a lower temperature (there's more oxygen in the same space if density is increased) or more volume in general over the same period of time from it being slightly less constricted. Either way, you're going to see more power. Unless of course, you think they're lying about their dyno results. However, so far, everything they've told me about everything I've asked has checked out 100%, and their results on my car have always met or exceeded my expectations.

Keep in mind folks, that while the Livernois sales people aren't necessarily engineers, they are a shop of engineers. They do know what they're doing... and I'd never believe that they'd risk losing face with their customers to sell a relatively inexpensive piece of kit like a CAI by lying about it. That just wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

[SHOdded]

As I have stated before, need to know the customer's purpose for the CAI. If it is actual performance, start with simple air filter dropin upgrade (K&N 0r AEM, whatever ...). You want looks, you have your choices: K&N, Airaid, Livernois, MDesign, etc. You want sound, K&N is most obvious due to metal housing. But if you want real, feelable performance starting from down low, you NEED the upgraded downpipes. And if you can add in an upgraded exhaust, you have nearly maximized the potential for your ride. If sound is no barrier, add electronically activated cutouts for those all-out runs.

Nothing complicated about this.

 

[steelgiant5]

I am going to spend my money where it's gonna make a difference, I would put downpipes on before any intake. Those stock downpipes are pathetic.


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[rcryniak]

You want looks, you have your choices: K&N, Airaid, Livernois, MDesign, etc...

And looks is definitely a factor to some extent. I gladly shelled out the cash for the '13 SHO fender badges because they look sweet. No performance benefit whatsoever. (We all know that stickers and the like only add HP in Honda Civics. )

...add electronically activated cutouts for those all-out runs.

Explain? #puts_on_learning_cap

 

[steelgiant5]

And looks is definitely a factor to some extent. I gladly shelled out the cash for the '13 SHO fender badges because they look sweet. No performance benefit whatsoever. (We all know that stickers and the like only add HP in Honda Civics. )



Explain? #puts_on_learning_cap

Basically run wide open, open your exhaust up electronically right past your o2 sensors I would think.

 

[SHOdded]

Exhaust is still restricted by mufflers, though you can overcome some of it through newer designs (see C7 details). But the most you can realize is by opening up the exhaust as soon as possible after the cats & before the 3rd cat/resonator, which is where cutouts come in. Having them electronically controlled allows it to be automatic for the driver; most usually, dialed in by boost levels. Up to 20 awhp on a normal build (50whp on higher hp builds) can be gained this way.
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4615

 

[postwick]

I looked at the stock intake on my 2013 SHO and it clearly has a "snorkel" that pulls air from the front of the car, not the engine bay. I can't see how the aftermarket CAIs change the entry point of the air. Seems pointless to me as far as intake temp.

Everyone is posting track times and dyno results...how about posting actual temperature measurements of the air being drawn in?

 

[brucelinc]

I looked at the stock intake on my 2013 SHO and it clearly has a "snorkel" that pulls air from the front of the car, not the engine bay. I can't see how the aftermarket CAIs change the entry point of the air. Seems pointless to me as far as intake temp.

Everyone is posting track times and dyno results...how about posting actual temperature measurements of the air being drawn in?

I monitor intake temps with an Aeroforce gauge. I just have the stock airbox. I have measured the temps with a completely stock airbox and with one that I have modified with an intake and hose to the front bumper. Either way, intake temps are identical to ambient temps when moving. When stopped in traffic, some engine heat (and maybe heat from other vehicles) will raise the intake temp maybe 5-10 degrees but it cools back down once moving again.

Maybe others have measured the intake temps with various CAIs and they will share their findings.

 

[postwick]

Just as I suspected. Considering turbos heat the intake air anyway, and an intercooler costs less than a CAI...

 

[steelgiant5]

I would like to see an unbiased test with all of the "top" intakes, and the stock intake on the same car at the same time on a dyno.. If these companies had faith in their products you would see this. M design puts theirs up against the k&n intake.. Which is probably the worst design. Open air under the hood. I'm sure the stock one is better than that pile of junk.


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[Livernois Motorsports]

I would like to see an unbiased test with all of the "top" intakes, and the stock intake on the same car at the same time on a dyno.. If these companies had faith in their products you would see this. M design puts theirs up against the k&n intake.. Which is probably the worst design. Open air under the hood. I'm sure the stock one is better than that pile of junk.


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We have already put our Winstorm against the MDesign, as they are less than 5 miles from our shop. Here is the dyno graph of a FBO SHO of ours that was featured in several national publications.


You can clearly see where the restriction of their CAI lies. There are spots at low-end, mid range and then again at the top of the RPM band.

 

[steelgiant5]

I don't really care about yours vs m design.. I want to see stock vs yours and m design. The thread is called "cai really worth it" not m design vs livernois. The stock one may be more of a competitor than people may think


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[2012korn]

Since when is there an aftermarket intercooler for the 3.5 that costs less then an intake?

 

[steelgiant5]

Since when is there an aftermarket intercooler for the 3.5 that costs less then an intake?

Don't think their is one at all

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

I don't really care about yours vs m design.. I want to see stock vs yours and m design. The thread is called "cai really worth it" not m design vs livernois. The stock one may be more of a competitor than people may think


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Sorry for giving you exactly what you asked for,"I would like to see an unbiased test with all of the "top" intakes, and the stock intake on the same car at the same time on a dyno...."