Remote Oil Filtration
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32MTX
New Member
frams aren't bad for long intervals, they are just bad period due to their construction
no I didn't read the entire thread..... insert foot in mouth
still...... I don't care if Obama was using a fram filter.... doesn't make it right
maybe what he had back in the day really was good, but we don't really know that for certain
I'd rather use a motorcraft instead of a Fram if I wanted a cheap filter. Much better filter imho. I can get motocraft filters cheaper then walmart sells them, and they are even cheap as **** at wally world
no I didn't read the entire thread..... insert foot in mouth
still...... I don't care if Obama was using a fram filter.... doesn't make it right
maybe what he had back in the day really was good, but we don't really know that for certain
I'd rather use a motorcraft instead of a Fram if I wanted a cheap filter. Much better filter imho. I can get motocraft filters cheaper then walmart sells them, and they are even cheap as **** at wally world
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_JR_
New Member
i get them for cost + 10%
gmorrell
Never been a noob...
Shoe leather tastes better if you douse it with some Tabasco.
The Fram HP-1 racing filter is still widely used in racing circles, it's still carried by Pegasus Auto Racing and other racing parts vendors. I stopped using it and switched to the Mobil 1 filters (see the later picture of the filters on the driver's side) when the HP-1 became unavailable at local retail stores.
FWIW, those (awful...) Fram HP-1 oil filters got my SHO through two Car and Driver One Lap of America's, 1995 and 1996.
While you may not believe this sort of craziness is necessary or reliable, and for normal cars, it's not, when you start open tracking a 400 WHP supercharged car, oiling and thermal management become prime drivers for keeping a $5000 3.2L low compression engine in one piece. Double the horsepower means double the thermal waste load - everything has to work harder, and keeping stuff happy and lubricated and cool becomes a real engineering and money challenge.
The Fram HP-1 racing filter is still widely used in racing circles, it's still carried by Pegasus Auto Racing and other racing parts vendors. I stopped using it and switched to the Mobil 1 filters (see the later picture of the filters on the driver's side) when the HP-1 became unavailable at local retail stores.
FWIW, those (awful...) Fram HP-1 oil filters got my SHO through two Car and Driver One Lap of America's, 1995 and 1996.
While you may not believe this sort of craziness is necessary or reliable, and for normal cars, it's not, when you start open tracking a 400 WHP supercharged car, oiling and thermal management become prime drivers for keeping a $5000 3.2L low compression engine in one piece. Double the horsepower means double the thermal waste load - everything has to work harder, and keeping stuff happy and lubricated and cool becomes a real engineering and money challenge.
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needaQuaife
AKA: 5speedSHO
I have the dual oil filter relocation kit too, works great and after replacing oily failed starter three times, I have not had a problem since.
Off Road SHO
Moderator
Face palm on the face palm fail.
If you don't need it, you don't need it. However, if you're tracking a car in high temps or with a lot of hp you need plumbing for an oil cooler, anyway. Once you have a cooler with additional plumbing it's not much of a risk increase to add the remote filter. The tradeoff to leak potentials is waaaaay ahead of the game. Also notice that in the decent implementations of people doing this they're using braided hoses with decent fittings. It's not that hard to minimize the chance of leaks if you're willing to do it right.
On the other hand, when you know your oil temps are killing the life and effectiveness of the oil you're pretty stupid to not add plumbing for a cooler, and then the remote filter is a pretty small change once that's in.
And for a race car I don't think FRAMs are so bad. IIRC Ernie was running dual FRAMs and pretty unapologetic about it, and he's not an ignoramus when it comes to motors. When you change them every few hours of operation the cost difference is going to look attractive compared to the performance difference in that sort of maintenance cycle.
I gots me a BIG leak!
If you're going to use an analogy, pick a better candidate.
Lol...
As was said above... use quality fittings, hoses, take-off plate, and big lines. I used to have a remote oiling setup, but got rid of it in favor of the cooler. I didn't want the complexity of having both, so I stuck with the most important for my application. The remote setup I did use from AMSoil used small lines and I'm sure that's one of the factors that led to me building a new motor. The setup I currently have uses -12AN, but I wouldn't have a problem running -10AN.... Nothing smaller.
I want to get in on the facepalm...
gmorrell
Never been a noob...
Some years ago, mid/late nineties when I was still at Ford, I had a conversation with a Fram engineer in their commercial products/aftermarket filter division. We talked about oil filter flow capacity, relief valve settings, fluid face-velocity at the filter media surface; real fluid dynamics geek stuff.
When I told him the flow capacity of the SHO 3.0L V6 oil pump (12 GPM at pressure, 6400 RPM crank), there was a low whistle from the phone line. The Fram application for the Ford FL-300A is the PH3600, he looked up flow and pressure drop data for the PH3600 and told me that ANY commercially available filter with that case size and filter media area would be in full bypass at that flow rate. IOW, the relief valve is fully open, and the oil flow mostly or completely bypasses the filter media. So, figure that any time your SHO motor goes over 6500 RPM, with the stock beer can sized filter, there is no oil filtration. Feel better now?
The results of that conversation are the primary reason I plumbed in dual, parallel high flow filters, Fram or otherwise.
Think about 12 GPM for a moment, because that's about twice the flow from a large bore garden hose at 60 psi. I can get about 6 GPM from the 1" diameter poly pipes on my underground sprinkler system. 12 GPM is a Metric shit-load of oil, near 50 Quarts per minute, or a Quart every 1.25 seconds. Try to empty a Quart bottle of oil by pouring it out; it will take considerably longer than 1 second.
Now, the 3.2L oil pump has a 20% wider geroter than the 3.0L pump, so at least theoretically, it can flow 20% more oil than the 3.0L pump. Anyone tracking a 3.2L motor, or a motor with a 3.2L pump had better think seriously about extra filter flow capacity.
When I told him the flow capacity of the SHO 3.0L V6 oil pump (12 GPM at pressure, 6400 RPM crank), there was a low whistle from the phone line. The Fram application for the Ford FL-300A is the PH3600, he looked up flow and pressure drop data for the PH3600 and told me that ANY commercially available filter with that case size and filter media area would be in full bypass at that flow rate. IOW, the relief valve is fully open, and the oil flow mostly or completely bypasses the filter media. So, figure that any time your SHO motor goes over 6500 RPM, with the stock beer can sized filter, there is no oil filtration. Feel better now?
The results of that conversation are the primary reason I plumbed in dual, parallel high flow filters, Fram or otherwise.
Think about 12 GPM for a moment, because that's about twice the flow from a large bore garden hose at 60 psi. I can get about 6 GPM from the 1" diameter poly pipes on my underground sprinkler system. 12 GPM is a Metric shit-load of oil, near 50 Quarts per minute, or a Quart every 1.25 seconds. Try to empty a Quart bottle of oil by pouring it out; it will take considerably longer than 1 second.
Now, the 3.2L oil pump has a 20% wider geroter than the 3.0L pump, so at least theoretically, it can flow 20% more oil than the 3.0L pump. Anyone tracking a 3.2L motor, or a motor with a 3.2L pump had better think seriously about extra filter flow capacity.
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gmorrell
Never been a noob...
Snipped from the Lubrication System section of the SHO Engine reference book.
See next post, thanks Jon.
See next post, thanks Jon.
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jonheese
Used-To-Know-It-All
Here's a slightly clearer version:
http://pollux.jonheese.com/heese/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/SHO/****-capacity.jpg
http://pollux.jonheese.com/heese/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/SHO/****-capacity.jpg
probe_racer
Active Member
sorry to bring a thread back but have a question for all of you guys, I'm installing a remote oil filter system too, but im looking at the ports on the oil filter take off plate, i bought it from pegasus auto racing supplies, what I'm concerned about is that the ports are not 100% clear of restriction, there is a missmatch between the center ports and the side port connection is this normal??? or do i need to remove some metal to remove any restriction and have full flow of oil?? anyone had any issues with the adapter as they are ???
thanks
thanks
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gmail
Well-Known Member
I mounted a pair of 8A filters on a dual remote setup in front of the driver's side front wheel. I used one existing hole as a template and a 90 degree drill adapter to drill the other two. Then I used some thread-serts, as there's no graceful way to get nuts on the back of any bolts there.
The filters are tucked up high. Been that way for years and haven't had a problem.
Biggest issue has been minor annoying leaks from the worm clamps on the hoses, so I make sure they're tight with each oil change. Eventually they'll go away for some proper fittings.
It's a cheap Summit setup with the filters in parallel. When I change my oil I put a catch pan under them, center punch the filters with an awl and let them drain before spinning them off.
Best part is that my starter isn't an oily mess.
why would you take the time and money to remote filter then put on a fram filter? you know how many engines fram has claimed? i know a guy who fram bought him a new 90k dollar engine...
anyways back to the topic.. i run wix racing filter for my normal filter then also have amsoil by pass filter..
the wix racing filter gives me high flow high volume and the by pass gives me super filtration down to 1 micron. 2 micron is the normal but it can catch down as low as 1 micron.
i have it so now i am a 7 quart system as well.. my setup is doing very well, all i did was relocate the main filter with braided lines and add the bypass to a sandwich plate..
i got oil tests to prove my setup been doing me good..
rbruso
unlikely
I have a pair of Motorcraft filters on there now. Periodically I tighten the worm clamps on those hoses. Eventually I'll upgrade the components, but it's been running well for quite a while now.
boat
Likes blue ones
Sounds like you have a nice system Gmail.
Did this Probe_racer's question even get answered?
Did this Probe_racer's question even get answered?
Marccus
New Member
Filtering through a 14 micron filter is still filtering through a 14 micron filter no matter how many filters you put in series or in parallel. I use a 1 micron NTZ (German company) bypass filter. I measured the bypass amount when the oil was cold and it was less than 1 % of the total flow. The flow rate won't increase that much when the oil is hot as the flow rate is weakly related to the Reynolds number which increases because the viscosity decreases leadingt tio a smaller friction factor. Even a factor of two or three won't be a large percentage of the total flow. Also, I run my SHO pretty easy so it won't be starved for oil in any case I encounter.
The oil is much lighter in color after 3,000 miles. I tapped off the pressure sensor port and returned the oil to the level sensor. You can mount the filter next to the power steering fluid reservoir and don’t have to move the battery. ¼” hose is used. When the hose to/from the filter gets cold it’s time to change the filter.
The oil is much lighter in color after 3,000 miles. I tapped off the pressure sensor port and returned the oil to the level sensor. You can mount the filter next to the power steering fluid reservoir and don’t have to move the battery. ¼” hose is used. When the hose to/from the filter gets cold it’s time to change the filter.
pitaSHO
Why do I do this to myself?
I vote Sticky and Close. There's a lot of good info here; it would be nice to keep it clean. I'll be looking at doing something like this in the next year or so when I get my 3.2 installed.
Chris K.
Chris K.
Shoaz
Studly dood
Welcome to post #36 and the explanations that followed. This was addressed and dismissed.
Which setup? A cooler or remote filter or dual remote filters? A good oil cooler will always drop oil temps.
probe_racer
Active Member
No,it hasn't. i think it is relevant to know if the casting is a restriction the way the adapters come from the factory or has anyone used them without problem the way they are.
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