worsening powerloss in a 95 ATX, CEL's and symptoms inside

[Dasfinc]

Cam sensor controls fuel. If it is running without cam signal (yes people it can/will run) it will be pig rich. If it is rich, ecspecially for long periods of time, the cats will be ruined. So keep that in mind. What I would start with as of now is (without being able to put my hands on the car)

1. Cam sensor
2. Loosen y-pipe at manifold and see if car has more power
3. IAC - or check for vacuum leaks (for your Idle problem)

I take it that removing the thread sealant from the knock sensor cured that for you?

- James

I just realized you were that nice fella at Dyno day!

You just said word for word what I was thinking basically

I JUST got off the phone with Kim like an hour ago and told her "I suspect the cam sensor has been ****** since we got the car, and its been running rich since *hence the bad gas mileage* I suspect recently *the past 3 months* its been getting progressively worse as the cats are probably being destroyed, so I ordered a new cam sensor online *$28 at autozone.com* and we will go to pauls tomorrow to gut the cats out" (buddy of ours who can weld)

I have a full spare manifold with another IAC valve, and yet ANOTHER in my closet *dont ask* so I will check out the other 2 to see if that helps that issue, but it obviously is a VERY small concern of mine compared to her getting 8mpg and being slower than my focus...

I couldn't get a hold of the right socket to pull that damn sensor this weekend, so by the time I got back to the new sensor I had no way to get it back out, but after cleaning off that ground in the valley, and protecting the ground wire again it seems to have gotten rid of that code.

did you check to see if the SPOUT jumper is present?

no CLUE what that is I'm afraid, Pics?

I forgot to take into mind that motors were swapped. Pinched/loose wires anywhere by chance?

And it was in an accident, Lol.

No, no pinched wires, lots of broken connectors since probably every connector on the entire engine harness is broken but everything seems to be holding just fine, and a few 'relocated' grounds, but nothing crippling that I could find.

 

[St Louis SHO]

Well, please keep us posted, as I'm curious myself. I wish I could have helped more, but man I was hung over at dyno day.....

- James

 

[Dasfinc]

Well, please keep us posted, as I'm curious myself. I wish I could have helped more, but man I was hung over at dyno day.....

- James

Its hard to help fix a car without being in front of it or driving it, so trust me, you were plenty of help considering you informing me that the knock sensor IS a ground caused me to find the bad ground causing the CEL for that problem.

I REALLY suspect this problem is sensor related, this motor has SO much more life in it, its pushing 210K+ by now and ran hard and strong back in my 93 ATX.

You wouldn't happen to have a valve shim kit I could borrow and pay you for the used shims would you? Paul said he can do it, and has the tools, but doesn't have the shims.

Me and Kim don't have the like $200+ to rent a kit online... :-(

 

[91 shonice]

HMMM this post looks just like mine. Mostly same problem. When cranking do you lose power?

 

[Dasfinc]

HMMM this post looks just like mine. Mostly same problem. When cranking do you lose power?

Sometimes it 'hiicups' while turning over, like half way through a crank it just cuts *EVERYTHING cuts, lights, etc* almost like it has a weak battery *brand new battery in the car*, then keeps trying.

It only does that every once in a while though, not like every time.

 

[91 shonice]

yep but mines pretty bad and I still can't figure it out.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

What kind of CEL's was the car throwing when you replaced the cam sensor?

I didn't have any problems when I pulled my cam sensor, just a leaky cam seal, so I had to pull the sensor to get to that

 

[91 shonice]

I got it!! cam sensor. Runs fine now.

 

[Dasfinc]

I hope thats what mine is, Waiting for the sensor to arrive.

 

[91 shonice]

Its a PITA to do if the lil bolts are rusted.
Check out http://www.shophoenixproject.com/CIDRemoval/CIDremoval.htm
If that dosen't work take off the engine dampener and move the PS resevoir.

 

[Dasfinc]

Hey all, I did 2 things last night, we punched out the cats *well, one cat, one of them was already hollowed out/blown out* and I pulled the CPS *I don't have the new one yet, but I wanted to see how bad it would be to get too, and see if I was leaking oil back there*

No oil AT ALL in the sensor, or in its housing, but the sensor looks like its the original ford piece. New sensor should arrive soon, it will be going in this weekend, cross your fingers for me everyone!!!

 

[91 shonice]

What are the odds? The same thing just happened to my wife's 99 SLO just finished. 2 cam sensors on 2 cars in 2 days. Well G L

 

[Dasfinc]

Alright everyone, replaced the cam sensor, with no luck. The car runs the SAME with the cam sensor unplugged, just takes longer to start and has no tach.

We've replaced the plugs, Wires, TPS, knock sensor, rear O2, and the cam sensor

Car no longer throws codes 212 or 214 for Cylinder ID, nor does it throw codes for the knock sensor, it still throws 1 code for an O2 sensor, and its throwing a code 542? Something about fuel pump ground? and about every code the system has for EGR, and IACV out of range.

the throttle body coolant lines have been by-passed on this car, so I don't know if that would cause the IACV out of range, but I'd imagine it would. Also, the EGR nostrils are CLEAN, carb cleaner goes right into the manifold and out of the manifold.

Any more ideas people? I'm running out of money and the car is getting worse.

the little power it produces 'surges' *sounds like the exhaust tone is 'stepping' up every second or so' as you accelerate with any set amount of throttle. Also if you come to a complete stop, and try to accelerate afterwards the car will often stall out, and you basically have to idle it in drive until its going 5mph to give it any throttle or it just starts to stall. PLEASE HELP!!!

 

[St Louis SHO]

I'd be looking for the wires from the cam sensor to the ECM. It is obviously not seeing cam signal.

 

[Dasfinc]

I'd be looking for the wires from the cam sensor to the ECM. It is obviously not seeing cam signal.

Here's the EXACT layout with the sensor things

Had old sensor, car ran like poo

unplugged old sensor, car ran the same with no tach and took a few more tries to start

installed new sensor, still runs like poo.

Does the fact that paul did the throttle body coolant by-pass have any effect on any of this? it didn't start stalling out until after that was done.

Also, after replacing the sensor, it is no longer throwing the 212 and 214 codes! so it must be getting signal from the sensor, I'm so ******* lost, and we can't afford to buy another car

What is the 'surging' or 'stepping up' caused by? *or how do you believe it would be caused by the cam sensor?

Some more info, Car starts right up, no problems, Idles strong and healthy, idle doesn't bounce, shifts perfect, I've tried a MAF off another car, and a different DIS still with no changes.

 

[SolidState]

did you check the ground on the back of the intake?

 

[Dasfinc]

Yea, its relocated, but its still a solid ground.

 

[St Louis SHO]

EGR sticking open?

 

[Dasfinc]

EGR sticking open?

Negative as per our test this evening

 

[ViPER1313]

First off, check to make sure the SPOUT connector is in place. It looks like a little grey square in a fuse holder, and is located behind the motor by the ground strap on the passenger side of the engine compartment.

Secondly, check the wiring harness that runs on top of / behind the rear valve cover for any sort of damage. My friend had an 89' that was having all sorts of drivability issues, throwing a cam position sensor code, stalling, etc. After replacing the DIS, cam position sensor, IAC, regrounding the engine and tons of other stuff, I found 1 wire that was frayed and rubbing against the chassis behind the motor. 1 piece of electrical tape and the car ran perfectly.