Water Pump issue questions

[BigBill]

So I've done some research on this issue but still have some questions regarding this problem.

I've noticed most of the complaints are from owners with 2010 to 2015 years, but I'm guessing most newer years haven't racked up the mileage yet for the problem to appear. I also read there was a mod to the water pump / timing chain to make it a double chain / sprocket.

Was there also a a mod to the WP that improves the bearings failing?

Adding the PP adds better engine cooling. Does that help with the pump breakdown leakage issue?

 

[SM105K]

You questio

So I've done some research on this issue but still have some questions regarding this problem.

I've noticed most of the complaints are from owners with 2010 to 2015 years, but I'm guessing most newer years haven't racked up the mileage yet for the problem to appear. I also read there was a mod to the water pump / timing chain to make it a double chain / sprocket.

There is zero reasons or benefits to change it to a double roller.

Was there also a a mod to the WP that improves the bearings failing?

There is no mod to the WP per say. However, changing the coolant and not letting it break down is paramount. I speak about it in post there of the thread I posted in your other thread.

Direct quote:

Next up is coolant. Coolant is very important with the 3.5 Ecoboost engine. Not only does it help regulate temp, it also acting as a lubricate for the water pump. It conditions seals, and this allows coolant do stay out of bearings within the water pump. The 3.5 EB engine has an internal water pump (underneath the timing cover). Though these pumps don't often fail, when they do it is catastrophic for the engine. However there are signs if the water pump is failing. It will start weeping coolant so start paying attention.

I would change my coolant every 30k miles miles too. In a "normal" climate say the midwest Ford recommends a 50/50 coolant to distilled water mix. In the Great North where it gets extremely cold Ford recommends a 60/40 coolant to distilled water mix. In the South (I am from Phoenix) where it can get extremely hot, I run what Ford recommends at 40/60 coolant to distilled water mix.

Adding the PP adds better engine cooling. Does that help with the pump breakdown leakage issue?

The PP adds better cooling to the PTU and Transmission not really much to the engine.

To be honest, I would be more worried about Trans or PTU failure. Water pump is an after thought in my mind.

Answers in bold.

 

[luigisho]

I would consider this a maintenance item. Get a feel for the average mileage/age of those posting failures and come up with a guesstimate of when you might want to dig in and swap in a replacement.

 

[SHOdded]

Just like in real estate with location, the longevity of the water pump is dependent on maintenance.

Be aggressive with the coolant and oil change schedules, particularly coolant. Oil if you drive all city, or mixed, special operating conditions as it were. For the SHO, it is better to get into the special operating conditions mindset by default.

Basically, determine how much "shock" you are delivering to your SHO. Do you drive WOT frequently, do you have a lot of traffic on your routes, where you constantly have to speed up and slow down fast, etc. These conditions create shocks because suddenly the chains have to speed up, slow down, ... There is ALWAYS some amount of slack in mechanical devices and the harder you are on them, the faster the slack will grow. You could say the same for electrical devices as well, as nothing lasts forever.

Anecdotally, my friend has 2 FWD Edge vehicles, one of which he sold off at 285K (family reasons, not coz he wanted to), one he is still driving, probably till it turns 500K or rust consumes it (midwest). How many pump failures? No fingers needed. His driving is mostly highway, averaging 50 mph overall, he avoids hard braking, and only goes WOT when needed, such as when merging onto the highway. To me, these are "ideal" conditions, but they can be achieved with practice. Maintenance intervals even with highway driving are every 30K for coolant, 10K / 200 hrs for oil (250 is probably the limit with non-extended full syn).

 

[BigBill]

I would consider this a maintenance item. Get a feel for the average mileage/age of those posting failures and come up with a guesstimate of when you might want to dig in and swap in a replacement.

I fully expect to do that, probably just have the dealership or a good mechanic do it when the time comes. My concern is the failures and engine damage with little or no warning. I check under the hood of my cars on a regular basis, it's do I have to do it everyday when the mileage starts to get up there.

This issue isn't deterring me, I've wanted a SHO for a while. I'm just trying to understand what's happening, is it an issue with the SHO with the PP and better cooling and is it still happening with recent models.

Thanks for your input.

 

[BigBill]

Just like in real estate with location, the longevity of the water pump is dependent on maintenance.

Be aggressive with the coolant and oil change schedules, particularly coolant. Oil if you drive all city, or mixed, special operating conditions as it were. For the SHO, it is better to get into the special operating conditions mindset by default.

Basically, determine how much "shock" you are delivering to your SHO. Do you drive WOT frequently, do you have a lot of traffic on your routes, where you constantly have to speed up and slow down fast, etc. These conditions create shocks because suddenly the chains have to speed up, slow down, ... There is ALWAYS some amount of slack in mechanical devices and the harder you are on them, the faster the slack will grow. You could say the same for electrical devices as well, as nothing lasts forever.

Anecdotally, my friend has 2 FWD Edge vehicles, one of which he sold off at 285K (family reasons, not coz he wanted to), one he is still driving, probably till it turns 500K or rust consumes it (midwest). How many pump failures? No fingers needed. His driving is mostly highway, averaging 50 mph overall, he avoids hard braking, and only goes WOT when needed, such as when merging onto the highway. To me, these are "ideal" conditions, but they can be achieved with practice. Maintenance intervals even with highway driving are every 30K for coolant, 10K / 200 hrs for oil (250 is probably the limit with non-extended full syn).

Thanks for sharing your friends situation. I can honestly say I fall into the same category as them. Since I work fom home full time, I don't commute to work so I avoid rush hour traffic like the plague. Most of my driving is weekend road trips and some weekday errands. And I don't race my cars when I drive but it's nice to know I can lay into it and will every now and then.;-)

I always follow maintenance schedules even sooner than what manufacturer recommends. I remember when I bought our new 96 Olds Cutlass Supreme and the salesman's selling point was that you didn't have change plugs, trans or coolant fluids for 100k miles. Needles to say I payed no attention to that, I finally sold that car with over 150k on it and no issues, component replacements and the trans held up Etc. Matter of fact all my vehicles over the years no matter what brand gave me pretty good service up to when I sold them all with well over 150k miles on them. I even had an 85 Chrysler Lebaron with a 2.2 turbo that hit 200k when I finally donated it, but that one did like to go thru head gaskets. Good thing it was an easy fix.

My mind is made up I want an SHO. I love big cars, it's a shame the auto makers are trending towards SUVs and discontinuing sedans especially the big ones. Who would of thought that one day if you wanted a big Ford or Buick sedan you have to go to China. Unreal!

Anyway thanks for your input.

 

[SHOdded]

Sounds like you are G2G With ecoboosts, it is recommended to do the periodic Italian Tuneup and forget about "eco" for that period of time. With any modern car really, but definitely with EBs. People say it helps keep the back of the intake valves clean, IDK about that. But it keeps the car responsive and prevents it from lapsing into "mundane mode".

 

[krewat]

Sounds like you are G2G With ecoboosts, it is recommended to do the periodic Italian Tuneup and forget about "eco" for that period of time.

I do this with all my vehicles. My first car was a Triumph TR7. Redline at 6500 RPM. I used to work on it a lot, and a model (yeah, she was a model) had a convertible TR7 and used to drive by and see me working on it. So she stopped one day and asked me if I could take a look at something. Oh, I looked alright

Anyway, I knew her for years. Every 4-6 months, she'd come by and say it wasn't running "right" - I'd drop her off at her house, drive the thing like I stole it, right up to redline for a half hour or so. And go home. Drop it off the next day, and she would call later and say "Wow! What did you do? It's running great again!". When I explained she had to beat on it once in a while, I had to take her out and show her that going above 3K RPM was OK

I don't know if it was the Stromberg carbs, the plugs, or the valve train, but that thing loved to get beat on. And that's before PCMs and adaptive learning.

(Too bad she had a coke problem)

 

[luigisho]

I don't know if extra cooling is a remedy of the overall design. Couldn't hurt though!

 

[SM105K]

I don't know if extra cooling is a remedy of the overall design. Couldn't hurt though!

It isn't, proper lubrication of the water pump is most important.