Valeo clutch problems *With Pics*

[iselltonsofthings]

Problem Area: VALEO CLUTCH / TRANSMISSION

Vehicle:

• 1993
• Taurus SHO
• MTX
• 3.0L
• Mileage 110,000a

Vehicle Past History:

• One owner car, Purchased new by an older lady in 1993. This was one of those killer finds where the lady though the car was just a luxury Taurus, Absolutely NO idea why we really buy these cars.. "For the engine"
• Dealer serviced every year prior to winter.
• Car had all fluids replaced by dealer, drove straight back to her house where it was then was put into a heated garage for winter. She had a 4WD Explorer that she used strictly until mid spring.
• The reason the car was sold to me in 2002 was due to the original Yr. 1993 clutch was finally starting to go.
  
  When I purchased the car it had roughly 100,000 miles and was in need of the clutch. I did the work myself and replaced it with a factory Valeo clutch, PP, friction disk, & new TOB. All bolts were loctite'd during installation of the fresh clutch. The flywheel was re-surfaced by a professional shop. The clutch cable was also replaced with a new one because I already had the old one out and.. well.. why not just go ahead and replace it now while it is easy? Everything went back together with no problems and for the past 10,000 miles the car has given me zero problems until recently.....

Symptoms:

• Difficulty shifting in/out of gear with engine running
  
• NO difficulty shifting in/out of gear with engine OFF
• When shifting into a low gear (1st-2nd) from neutral, with engine running and parking brake set (car is not moving), you can hear a whining sound as though something is spooling up.

"My guess.. it sounds like the synchros are spooling up because the clutch isn't disengaging all of the way"

• Once the internals are spooled up to full speed, the shifter would finally go into gear. I only did this a total of 2-3 times because I was afraid that the synchros are roasting when that "spooling up occurs"

Other Information PRIOR to Transmission Removal:

• At no time was there any grinding sounds
• Transmission fluid and clutch was changed less than 10,000 miles before this problem
• Problem happened all of a sudden. Car was backed out of garage into driveway. Car was shut off, and washed. Upon restarting, there was the shifting problem.
• Clutch pedal travel felt normal, no binding.
• Manually reaching under the dash and lifting up on the pedal and pushing against the spring of the quadrant, everything was working properly. Plenty of spring tension.
• Plus there was guaranteed to be the appropriate tension on the cable all of the 10,000 miles. I have a habit of putting my left foot under the pedal and lifting up 1/2 inch or so, every now and then, as I'm cruising down the highway. As you know, this permits the clutch quadrant to click into the next tooth if it needs to.
• Clutch engagement / disengagement itself seemed normal. No problem taking off from a dead stop, just as long as I could get it into 1st gear

Other Information AFTER Transmission Removal:

• Upon draining fluid from transmission when tearing it apart to take these pictures, the oil was clean, absolutely no shavings.
• Pressure Plate Fingers are approximately 1/2 -> 2/3 worn down
• TOB bearing felt excellent with just the right amount of drag. As you know, very slight drag on a bearing is a good feeling.
  A bearing that free-wheels when you spin it means that all of the grease is gone and the bearing is actually SHOT.
• The pressure plate 10mm bolts were all secure and tight.
• The flywheel bolts were all secure and tight
• None of the PP straps were broke
• The flywheel surface was also excellent and the "resurfacing grinding swirls" were still visible from when I had the flywheel trued 10,000 miles ago when I initially installed the clutch
• The flywheel had little to no heat discoloration
• The pressure plate was also in excellent condition with little to no heat discoloration.
• The friction disk was also in good condition with very little signs of use.
• The TOB, forks, and release arm bushings all moved smooth and free. There was no binding found here.
• Last but not least is the rod shifter. Everything here checked out as well. The rod shifter is tight with absolutely Zero slop

Summary:

Overall, The clutch seems to be in excellent condition.

The main issue that concerns me is the extreme wear to the PP fingers. These fingers were worn between 1/2 and 2/3 of the way through the metal.
Remember though that the TOB bearing felt fine.
I always lifted up on the clutch pedal which kept tension on the clutch quadrant so I'm not sure why there is so much wear to the fingers.

It isn't like there was so very little pressure holding the TOB against the PP fingers that it allowed them to slip and cause the extreme wear. Plus the TOB moved as smooth as silk against the Quill?? So there was no binding there as well?

I don't believe the problem is internal because at highway speeds, the car was "easier -> not flawless" to shift and while parked with the engine off, the car would shift perfectly with no awkward noise when going through the gears.

Below are a few pictures to use as a reference. If you see something that you need a close up of, I'll be happy to post it. Same goes if you need to see something that isn't shown, just let me know.

Right above the pictures are links to identical ones only in full size. These full size pictures are NOT recommended for 56k users.

Thank you kindly to anyone who can provide some professional help with this matter.

Sincerely, Scott


Click For Extremely Large Full Size Pictures:

• http://keystonepowdercoating.com/hosting/93shoclutch/clutch lg.JPG
• http://keystonepowdercoating.com/hosting/93shoclutch/clutch lg (1).JPG
• http://keystonepowdercoating.com/hosting/93shoclutch/clutch lg (2).JPG
• http://keystonepowdercoating.com/hosting/93shoclutch/clutch lg (3).JPG

 

[Ishodu]

Its defiantly a TOB issue. Maybe when force is added to the bearing its sticking? Sometimes bearings can feel good with no load on them. For reference here is a pic of my PP from last weekend with Josh ceramic TOB. This PP has about 12-13000 miles on it. You can see a slight mark but with your finger nail can't really feel it. http://usera.imagecave.com/marceltimmons/Car_Pics/pressureplatefingers.jpg

 

[SHO#7]

I agree, Throw out bearing and pressure plate need to be replaced. Look up Midwestsho , they make an updated TOB. And pressure plate for that matter too.

Good luck.

Mike

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Agreed with the above mentioned.

Also, is the clutch fork the original? How about the clutch fork bushings?

During my last clutch job I replaced the fork and bushings. Totally different clutch feel. I also compared the wear on the original fork (120k) to the new one. The was an amaizing amount of wear on the surface that the TOB rides against. So much so, that there were flat spots on the portions that should be rounded. My original bushings were SHOT as well. The new bushings tightened everything up. And as we know, that consistant contact between the TOB and PP fingers is CRUCIAL to these clutches lasting.

 

[Bizzy]

Midwest does carry SHO NUT's ceramic TOB, it is a great product and I highly suggest it. It can also be purchased directly from Josh.

Scott, have you checked to see if your shift fork and arm assembly are not worn or bent? A worn fork or bent arm can cause problems such that you describe.

 

[Dan H]

Definitely get a SHOnut Ceramic TOB, www.shonutperformance.com

I would put in a SHOnut HD PP at the same time, the stock PP has very weak straps.

Josh at SHOnut is the best vendor you will ever deal with.

 

[Sexymeatball]

Wow...those pictures look like my stock valeo clutch after 15k miles when I took it out for the same symptoms. And like yours, the clutch seemed to be in excellent condition minus the finger wear. The TOB seemed fine too. It stumped me until my dad and I figured it out. It was actually the sleeve itself riding up the input shaft and jamming against the disc. Apparantly it happens relatively frequently, but is for some reason not talked about. Anyone, put some locktite on the quill sleeve before you put it all back together to keep it from happening again. The stuff to use is called sleave retainer and it can be bought cheaply at nappa. check out this thread which I started when i discovered my problem.

 

[iselltonsofthings]

First off.. I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time to reply.

I will try to answer / comment on some things that were said.

Bizzy - Have you checked to see if your shift fork and arm assembly are not worn or bent? A worn fork or bent arm can cause problems such that you describe.

Both the Fork and release arm are in excellent shape. The tips of the forks seem to have little wear.

Sexymeatball - It was actually the sleeve itself riding up the input shaft and jamming against the disc. Apparantly it happens relatively frequently, but is for some reason not talked about. Anyone, put some locktite on the quill sleeve before you put it all back together to keep it from happening again. The stuff to use is called sleave retainer and it can be bought cheaply at nappa

Actually when I replaced the whole clutch assembly there was no quill sleeve that came with the kit, although I do know what you are talking about. This TOB had a plastic insert that loosely rubs against the Quill. Plus, the Quill on the transmission was in excellent condition with hardly any wear at all when I did the clutch job at 100,000 miles. Although not necessarily the entire reason but this car was babied all of its life. I doubt the previous owner ever even felt the butterfly's open.

Dan H - Definitely get a SHOnut Ceramic TOB, www.shonutperformance.com I would put in a SHOnut HD PP at the same time, the stock PP has very weak straps. Josh at SHOnut is the best vendor you will ever deal with.

Josh is a good guy. I have spoke to him in the past and will contact him again regarding the ceramic TOB.


But regardless of which clutch / tob to go with in the future, I'm more curious as to why this problem happened in the first place. And why was the problem so noticeable in just a single moment. As stated before, this problem did not span out over the course of the 10,000 miles.

With everything from the spring in the clutch quadrant, all the way down to the bolts holding the flywheel onto the crank, absolutely everything checks out in A-OK shape.

The only thing that I notice is the extreme wear to the PP fingers?

Can anyone comment on why this problem exists and where it stems from? Because I can't find the culprit. Why is the ceramic TOB the cure-all to the problem?

Although the HD pressure plate with reinforced straps might be another key problem with these clutches, ultimately, that isn't the problem with this particular clutch.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Sincerely, Scott

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

With that new info, mainly the lack-of a quill sleeve, IMO this is pretty cut and dry.

No quill sleeve = wear on the quill = slop between quill and TOB = TOB not riding totally square on the PP fingers = wear marks in PP fingers.

 

[Ishodu]

Agreed with above, Also the ceramic TOB has ceramic balls in it, much lighter than steel ones. Spin up time is much much less. This causes less ware.