Tranmission Issues - Any Input?

[AZ-SHO]

Hey guys (and girls?) - I've been having some issues with the transmission over the past two years. It's been largely intermittent but has recently gotten worse, and in a hurry. I'm going to be overly detailed here (what follows may sound like doomsday, but these issues have been very intermittent. Just had them repeat over the last few drives, so it's starting to worry me).

The Issues:

• 1-2 shift results in the feeling of hitting a brick wall. Medium throttle input, hit the paddle to go into 2nd and WHAM!, let off and it seems fine, get back on the throttle and WHAM!. Hit the paddle to go to third, the indicator and trans seem confused, as third flashes and then doesn't engage. Go back to 2nd, it engages and drives away fine. This has only happened a few times but I'm not looking forward to the day it happens when I pull out in front of traffic.
• 2-3 shift leaves the revs hanging for a half-second in third. When the car shifts to third the revs will drop to 2100 or so if I'm at part throttle, and it takes a bit of time to drop down to 1800 or so and fully engage. I can't say it feels like slippage vs. just a slow engaging shift.
• 5th and 6th rpm jumps. This only started happening this week. Once in each gear, driving along at about 1700-1800 rpms and all of a sudden the rpms are at 2500 and the car isn't accelerating. Downshifted a gear, then upshifted and it was fine. Same thing in each gear.
• 6th gear stumble. I can't drive in sixth under 65 mph (non PP). The car just stumbles and stutters, roughly accelerating. If the rpms are over 1700-1800 its fine unless going up a hill. It feels like it's either experiencing pre-ignition, or the knock sensor is doing its job and pulling timing. Is this common? Not sure if it's transmission related or a symptom of something else.
• 3-1 or 2-1 rough engagement. The car seems to load up and shift roughly into 1st when slowing down. Not a rev-match downshift like in the higher gears, but like it doesn't know how fast the car is going. After this I sometimes experience the brick wall 1-2 attempt at a shift. It doesn't happen often, but when it does it makes me pucker; that's how unusual it feels.
  
• This all seems more frequent at colder temperatures, but happens whether the car and transmission are cold OR up to temperature. Some days it will be half a mile from the house, other days after a 45 minute drive on the highway when trying to merge into traffic after exiting the highway. Not sure how the temp is related, but I only experienced the 2-3 hanging shift this past summer, and same thing out in AZ when I lived there, never the other issues.

To start, here's a list of what I've done so far, since buying the car at 117k (at 135k now). The car has an LMS stg4+ 91 octane tune, and I run 93 octane.

• Drain and fill on the trans x2, plus a 4qt flush while running (1 qt out, 1 qt in, repeat). I went through about 12 qts total between the two. I did the first drain and fill at 117k, the second w/ flush at 135k after experiencing a few more issues. Fluid change hasn't helped. I've gone through the PTU and r/d as well.
• Plugs were done at 117k. No CELs for any misfires or anything.
  
• Tested the transmission range sensor. Pins 4, 5, 6, and 7 were all in the 2.1-2.9 ohm range when tested against pin 8. As far as I can tell, this means the TRS is apparently fine.

So, any input? For now I'm at a loss. I'm not so worried about the sloppy 2-3 shift, but the other issues concern me. Is it possible it's a result of oil on the MAP sensor, or pooled oil in the I/c? I've never had the hard 1-2 shift occur when accelerating straight from a stop, only after a turn into traffic or around an intersection yield ramp. Could it be fuel pickup related? The last time it happened I had <1/8 of a tank, but I can't recall the other times.

If transmission issues on these cars usually throw trans codes, I can buy the Ford addon for my scantool and try reading those. I'm open to any input you all have, or any questions you think will help you make some informed comments. I'm fairly well-versed in automotive, but not nearly as familiar with this car as I should be. I've been lacking a garage of my own to really tear into it since buying it, but have access to a few shops and a lift for anything I need to do over a few hour span Thanks!.

 

[AZ-SHO]

Note: I did also look through the other 40+ transmission-related threads in this forum before posting. I mean, all the ones where people could spell "transmission" correctly, since I clearly can't.

I'd edit the title, but I can't figure out how to do that either...

 

[bpd1151]

When refilling after a flush, have you tried overfilling it slightly?

I recall over the years, that some have found resolution by adding an extra half, to three fourths of a quart.

Not sure if it will solve all of your described symptoms, but it certainly can't hurt.

Good luck. Gotta be a frustrating circumstance for sure. Hopefully others can chime in with assistance as well.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[SHOdded]

Does this happen in Sport mode also using the paddle shifters? If you do not shift to 6th, is there any difference between the car autoshifting and you manually shifting? Is there RPM flutter at any time (rpms start jiggling around with no change in load or speed)?

1. Try a KAM reset. Disconnect the neg batt cable for 40+ minutes to let all modules go to sleep and drain learning memory.
2. If 1 does not work, may need to reset transmission adaptive tables with an advanced scan tool (such as IDS) or Forscan for Windows EL.
3. A real possibility that the TSS/OSS sensors are in need of replacement, if fluid replacement did not help.

 

[AZ-SHO]

When refilling after a flush, have you tried overfilling it slightly?

I recall over the years, that some have found resolution by adding an extra half, to three fourths of a quart.

Hmm, is that so? I would think that there would be enough fluid to handle anything but severe (track style) driving, but that hard 1-2 shift does always happen after taking a corner... though the last time it was at about 10 mph. Might be worth a shot. Thanks for the input!

Does this happen in Sport mode also using the paddle shifters? If you do not shift to 6th, is there any difference between the car autoshifting and you manually shifting? Is there RPM flutter at any time (rpms start jiggling around with no change in load or speed)?

1. Try a KAM reset. Disconnect the neg batt cable for 40+ minutes to let all modules go to sleep and drain learning memory.
2. If 1 does not work, may need to reset transmission adaptive tables with an advanced scan tool (such as IDS) or Forscan for Windows EL.
3. A real possibility that the TSS/OSS sensors are in need of replacement, if fluid replacement did not help.

Does reflashing the car reset adaptive learning? I was under the impression it did. I reflashed the car yesterday with the LMS 91 oct stg4+ tune in the hopes that the car had just learned some bad behaviors.

Alternatively, if the TSS/OSS sensors do need replacement, will they throw any sort of code in the transmission module, or is there a way to test them either via resistance or through PID observations?

This has only happened in sport/manual mode. I honestly drive the car in manual mode 99.5% of the time as I can't stand neutral coasting when slowing down in an automatic; not a fan of riding the brakes everywhere and at all times. I also don't like violent downshifts when I'm in need of acceleration, I'd rather have control of the gear I'm in at all times. There is no rpm flutter in any gear, even in 6th the car just feels like it pulls timing intermittently, but the rpms don't change much.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[SHOdded]

Flashing resets the important stuff. But IFK if it resets EVERYthing. Sometimes there is no substitute for pulling the batt cable.

Typically the problem is pretty far advanced by the time tss oss codes are thrown. You think problems are bad now, wait till the sensors start to flip out lol. The good news is no permanent physical damage to the trans unless you ignore codes.

As long as we are talking transmission, might as well bring up ptu/rdu fluids.

I would also check the boost/vacuum solenoid atop the manifold. Might have loose hoses causing erratic issues.

 

[AZ-SHO]

PTU fluid was evacuated at 117k and again recently at 135k. Dark and sludgy, as with every ford ptu I've ever serviced. I did get a real good evacuation this time though, the first service was mostly sludge, but this time it pulled the oil out well. I do need to do the rear diff again, that was last done at 117k. That's last on this month's list of maintenance.

If the reflash doesn't work I'll try pulling the battery cable and repeating the process.

As far as the TSS/OSS, the TSS is an externally installed sensor and can be removed without tearing into the trans, correct? Also, any issues with doing the TSS only, or do they need to be paired? I'm totally cool with throwing a few parts at it that are known for causing issues.

 

[SHOdded]

Sensors are under the main control cover, just beneath the air intake tube and adjacent to the trans dipstick. No need to crack the trans case.

Yes tss oss in pairs. Good time to check the valve body and solenoid body too. All co-located.

Go to the MACTFORDEDGE yt channel. Watch one person's journey replacing these on a 6f50, very similar to the 6f55.

 

[Bronco2fan]

I haven't seen anyone ask how long it's been tuned or if you've asked your tuner for input or advice. Does it do this if you're not using the paddles? Just try Drive or Sport without paddles? Just curious ?

 

[AZ-SHO]

I haven't seen anyone ask how long it's been tuned or if you've asked your tuner for input or advice. Does it do this if you're not using the paddles? Just try Drive or Sport without paddles? Just curious ?

It's been tuned since 2016 shortly after I bought it, at 117k miles. Now at 135k miles. I had no issues with the transmission when I lived in Arizona, and it was tuned the entire time. Seems to be keyed to weather, as strange as that sounds. I experienced the first issue last winter here in NH, then had not one issue over the summer, but it's now <50 F every day again, and it's acting up again.

It's LMS tuned - I can't say I got anything useful from them in the past. I had some pre-ignition issues when I moved, and I was less than impressed with their comments on it. They basically told me no one has had a similar issue with their tune and there isn't much they can do. I even offered to datalog for them, and they told me that it was not necessary(!). After a few weeks of me being on their case, they sent me a less aggressive set of tunes, on the chance I was getting bad quality gas out west. I still experienced the issues on hot days when going up hills, really bad on a trip to California in 115+ heat. But, no issues with that now that I'm back east and running 93, aside from the 6th gear issue described above.



The issues have been largely irregular, so without driving in D for a month I wouldn't feel confident saying that the issues weren't present. It's normally very occasional issues, but the last few trips had at least one or two oddities, so I figured it was time to post here and see what you all thought.

 

[Bronco2fan]

So I would try driving her in D or S without paddle shifting and see if it still doing it. If so, I would put the stock tune in her and check it that way as well before throwing parts on her.

Also I would have a reputable tranny shop check her out. They're mostly free diagnostic nowadays too. At worst they find something, at best they eliminate the tranny.

Just my 2 cents worth. Keep us posted.

Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk

 

[Johnbigdog]

Just some things I observed reading through.

These problems only occurs in sport corect?

My 16 p.p when in sport will shift into 6th after some time of traveling I think, but if I give it throttle it downshifts really quick? Maybe it just stays in 5th. Never truly paid attention. If you are in select shift mode the car will not upshift unless you tell it to or hit redline.

I paid attention tonight. Cruise at 70. In sport, no 6th unless I hit the + paddle shift.

What I can tell you for certain. If you try to up or downshift too early, the car won't let you and flash the gear your trying to get. You mentioned a flashing 3.

If you manually shif the car, and the pcm shifts the car in sport mode at the same time (usualy near red line) you can get a double shift that seems to linger . Super annoying and feels like a lack of power.

You can watch gas and odd, but if you can watch Gear (the commanded gear number) Gear-Rat (the com commanded gear ratio) and Tran-rat (the measured gear ratio through the transmission using the TSS and OSS sensor data). Tran rat should match gear rat closely and within one second of a shift. These pids do nothing for a harsh shift, as a harsh shift is the pcm compensating for a slip.

Tss is good for measuring a slip at a stop. Since there is insufucent TSS and OSS data a default ratio will be displayed. If you're in gear, for on the brake and there is tss RPM, a clutch is slipping.

 

[AZ-SHO]

Just some things I observed reading through.

These problems only occurs in sport corect?

My 16 p.p when in sport will shift into 6th after some time of traveling I think, but if I give it throttle it downshifts really quick? Maybe it just stays in 5th. Never truly paid attention. If you are in select shift mode the car will not upshift unless you tell it to or hit redline.

I paid attention tonight. Cruise at 70. In sport, no 6th unless I hit the + paddle shift.

What I can tell you for certain. If you try to up or downshift too early, the car won't let you and flash the gear your trying to get. You mentioned a flashing 3.

If you manually shif the car, and the pcm shifts the car in sport mode at the same time (usualy near red line) you can get a double shift that seems to linger . Super annoying and feels like a lack of power.

You can watch gas and odd, but if you can watch Gear (the commanded gear number) Gear-Rat (the com commanded gear ratio) and Tran-rat (the measured gear ratio through the transmission using the TSS and OSS sensor data). Tran rat should match gear rat closely and within one second of a shift. These pids do nothing for a harsh shift, as a harsh shift is the pcm compensating for a slip.

Tss is good for measuring a slip at a stop. Since there is insufucent TSS and OSS data a default ratio will be displayed. If you're in gear, for on the brake and there is tss RPM, a clutch is slipping.

The 2010 doesn't have a sport mode, only drive or manual mode, so a lot of what you mentioned doesn't apply to me specifically (but is probably useful commentary for others). I also appreciate the last bit about looking at the TSS readings while in gear and not moving, that might be useful in the future.

It's my experience with other cars, including Ford's that in sport mode the torque converter stays locked and the car stays in a gear where this is acceptable - aka why it would stay in 5th, yeah?


Quick update for everyone: Reflashing the car has worked wonders so far. No slip or harsh shifting issues, no problem cruising in 6th even as low as 60mph and 1400 or so rpms (gentle throttle use, usually in 5th at that speed). I do wonder if the vast difference in temperatures has anything to do with the issues - temperatures here can go from 90 to low 20's over the span of a few weeks, with huge changes in humidity. I know the car monitors these things, but I do wonder if the fueling tables and adaptive learning on the transmission can adjust as quickly.

 

[AZ-SHO]

Also, the flashing 3 - it did this when the car would not shift into 2nd, it literally wouldn't go into a gear after the harsh 1-2 attempt at a shift. It flashed in 2nd after the shift, again in 3rd when i tried to upshift, and then again in 2nd before it finally engaged.


Out of curiosity, since if any of the gears have slippage its 3rd gear, are you guys able to manually shift to 3rd and then crawl around parking lots? The car will downshift from 2 to 1 by itself even in manual mode if I'm going real slow, <5 mph.... but it will let me do that in 3rd, which seems strange.

*Second post because I can't seem to find any edit button...anyone want to tell me what I'm missing here?*

 

[Johnbigdog]

The 2010 doesn't have a sport mode, only drive or manual mode, so a lot of what you mentioned doesn't apply to me specifically (but is probably useful commentary for others). I also appreciate the last bit about looking at the TSS readings while in gear and not moving, that might be useful in the future.

It's my experience with other cars, including Ford's that in sport mode the torque converter stays locked and the car stays in a gear where this is acceptable - aka why it would stay in 5th, yeah?


Quick update for everyone: Reflashing the car has worked wonders so far. No slip or harsh shifting issues, no problem cruising in 6th even as low as 60mph and 1400 or so rpms (gentle throttle use, usually in 5th at that speed). I do wonder if the vast difference in temperatures has anything to do with the issues - temperatures here can go from 90 to low 20's over the span of a few weeks, with huge changes in humidity. I know the car monitors these things, but I do wonder if the fueling tables and adaptive learning on the transmission can adjust as quickly.

Didn't think there was a difference/didn't know about the manual mode.

Not sure where your going in the second question/statement. The torque converter will usually lock in in 3rd maybe sooner. In reality if there is no need for torque multiplication and the car is moving, the converter can lock in to reduce heat generation and energy loss.

The car itself can adapt to temperatures very quick. Just think of the temp difference between start up and operating temp. There could be a swing of 200 plus degrees. What usually takes longer to adapt to is the driver. If there are two drivers with two driving habits, this may cause problems.

 

[AZ-SHO]

Didn't think there was a difference/didn't know about the manual mode.

Not sure where your going in the second question/statement. The torque converter will usually lock in in 3rd maybe sooner. In reality if there is no need for torque multiplication and the car is moving, the converter can lock in to reduce heat generation and energy loss.

The car itself can adapt to temperatures very quick. Just think of the temp difference between start up and operating temp. There could be a swing of 200 plus degrees. What usually takes longer to adapt to is the driver. If there are two drivers with two driving habits, this may cause problems.

Operating temp changes are part of the normal cycle every time you drive the car though... The car is well prepared for a cold start with high idle until up to temp, etc. Outside temperature changes result in a vast difference regarding charge air temps and air density. I would expect the engine and trans to adapt to these changes in power levels pretty quickly as well, but the only common denominator I have with these issues is the season - they've only ever happened in temperatures under 50F.

 

[Johnbigdog]

Operating temp changes are part of the normal cycle every time you drive the car though... The car is well prepared for a cold start with high idle until up to temp, etc. Outside temperature changes result in a vast difference regarding charge air temps and air density. I would expect the engine and trans to adapt to these changes in power levels pretty quickly as well, but the only common denominator I have with these issues is the season - they've only ever happened in temperatures under 50F.

Air temps are monitored heavily. This car has an ambient air temp, Intake air temp in the filter, turbocharger boost pressure/temp sensor (before the throttle body) and a MAP/temperature sensor (on the intake). Fuel temp must be assumed through passive sensing, however the O2 can help here too.

What is harder to account for is individual clearances and wear over time. This is were monitoring and adapting takes place. So at lower temps, if there is a mechanical failure it's not expecting it takes time to compensate. The pcm can have a test mode where it monitors thing or may operate the transmission unusually.

Another fault that could happen, and more prevalent at lower temps is a sensor that is lying. A biased sensor can really cause problems with adapting to changes.