Glad they finally got it right for you! Did they explain what they had to do to the car to get it right? It should be written on your service invoice for future reference and I'm sure others would like to know incase they happen to run into the same issue. Again, congrats!
The AWD really does not work well
- Thread starter tms217
- Start date
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Glad they finally got it right for you! Did they explain what they had to do to the car to get it right? It should be written on your service invoice for future reference and I'm sure others would like to know incase they happen to run into the same issue. Again, congrats!
typhoon5000
Ferd Enganear
Glad to see you got your car fixed. Did they give anymore detail as to what they fixed specifically?
Do you have a link to this because I searched all over the Ford Media site on the 2010 Taurus and SHO and found no mention of Haldex anywhere. I know a Haldex system was used on the 500/freestyle/Montego and on the '08-09 Taurii/Sables, but I think it was changed for 2010.
The AWD system works through the PTU on the trans which runs 100%, spinning the driveshaft 100% of the time. The rear clutch pack engages to give RWD power. The AWD system in the SHO is also identical to the one in the normal Taurus except for different gear rations. The SHO trans has a few gears that are wider, as well as a cooler to handle the extra power, but that's about it IIRC.
Do you have a link to this because I searched all over the Ford Media site on the 2010 Taurus and SHO and found no mention of Haldex anywhere. I know a Haldex system was used on the 500/freestyle/Montego and on the '08-09 Taurii/Sables, but I think it was changed for 2010.
The AWD system works through the PTU on the trans which runs 100%, spinning the driveshaft 100% of the time. The rear clutch pack engages to give RWD power. The AWD system in the SHO is also identical to the one in the normal Taurus except for different gear rations. The SHO trans has a few gears that are wider, as well as a cooler to handle the extra power, but that's about it IIRC.
SHOck
New Member
First sentance of the third paragraph here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/09q1/2010_ford_taurus_sho-auto_shows
The statement is correct, btw, as long as the Haldex "system" is in control of the ZF components. Otherwise, one would have to expect the driveshafts, halfshafts, wheel hubs, wheels, tires, etc. to be Haldex as well, to be able to call it a Haldex system.
Haldex's AWD control software isn't Haldex product...
We all know Ford will have to continue to work to move away from their bad tranny rep of the 90's. Haldex has a good name in many industries. Ford is obviously working to give the non-SHO enthusiast the confidence to buy a SHO. Good to see they are back to caring about their product again.
typhoon5000
Ferd Enganear
That quote is from a Car and Driver article, not a Ford Press Release. The press don't get their facts right all of the time. I don't trust anything that's not directly written by Ford to be 100% true. That's just me.
It could use Haldex software though, as you were saying. I just know the diff pack and mechanics of it in the rear assembly aren't Haldex. I've seen the rear driveline assemblies on the 500 and the new Taurus and they are completely different. The 500 one actually has "Haldex" embossed on the side of the diff pack and the SHO has Ford embossed in the casting.
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G
gaggej
Guest
2010 SHO and it seems very similar to what I see here.
AWD worked fine new and now I'm FWD only. Full throttle at take off means full wheel spin and full TSC. Turn off TSC and it just spins forever. Dry pavement - tires will break loose but torque on steering wheel is massive, and unlike ever before.
In the past, rear would engage and car would rocket off the line.
Took to dealer and they claim all is well. Put it on a lift and 3 of 4 wheels spin while in drive and they claim no codes in the system which means no issues. Blaming it on Goodyear Eagle tires being too high performance for cold weather driving.
Need some help, especially in winter now.
Any ideas on troubleshooting or how to get the dealer to "see" this issue?
It seems like BamaRon had the same issue but I don't see how its fixed?
AWD worked fine new and now I'm FWD only. Full throttle at take off means full wheel spin and full TSC. Turn off TSC and it just spins forever. Dry pavement - tires will break loose but torque on steering wheel is massive, and unlike ever before.
In the past, rear would engage and car would rocket off the line.
Took to dealer and they claim all is well. Put it on a lift and 3 of 4 wheels spin while in drive and they claim no codes in the system which means no issues. Blaming it on Goodyear Eagle tires being too high performance for cold weather driving.
Need some help, especially in winter now.
Any ideas on troubleshooting or how to get the dealer to "see" this issue?
It seems like BamaRon had the same issue but I don't see how its fixed?
I don't know if 2010's have this issue, but some of the 2013's don't even have the AWD pids loaded so even if there was an issue, you wouldn't know it.
There is a TSB for the 2013's.
Good luck.
sho'noff
shoverdrive
may I be the first to say something about tire pressure.
sho'noff
shoverdrive
isn't there a way to take the front axles off?I don't think you should have any wheelspin before the RWD kicks in. The computer and clutches should react in less than a second IIRC. Also, just an FYI, the PTU runs 100% of the time and the RWD is engaged by a clutch pack that is attached to the front of the rear diff with the driveshaft from the PTU as it's input. It's the cylinder shaped case:
BTW this also answers the question about The SHO's AWD system being a Haldex system, in that it's not. If you read the display card, it says it is built by ZF.
typhoon5000
Ferd Enganear
There's a bunch of problems with this, mainly that rear diff isn't designed to take more than 50% of the engine's torque. It would eat it apart quite quickly. It would also be a very inefficient system, having a latitudinally mounted drivetrain with the power going through a PTU to the rear wheels only.
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
Rear Differential and clutches are limited to 150 HP/Torque and rear clutches are designed to slip and move all extra power to the front. So under full power, especially with mods and tunes, you get lots of spin on the front, with rears hooking up, or so they look. That's why I had good success with DR's on the front at the strip. Just have to make sure all tires are same diameter within a couple tenths.
krewat
SHO Member
I think I said this in another thread, but 150ft/lbs of torque AFTER the transmission is a piddling amount of torque. I can see 350ft/lbs total from the engine, so 350:150 means 2.3:1 torque difference between front and rear, but 150ft/lbs total to the rear no matter what? Not feasible. Would love to know where that number comes from.
If first gear is, for the sake of argument, 4:1, engine puts out 350, total torque after the tranny is 350*4, or 1400 ft/lbs. If the rear were truly limited to 150 ft/lbs, that would mean only around 10% of the total torque were getting to the back wheels. From my experience with my 2013, it's definitely putting a whole lot more torque out the back than 10%
In snow, my 2013 spins the rears so much that even with full TC and ESC on, the rear swings around real easy just by pushing the go-pedal a little too far. On dry pavement, without TC or ESC, I can get it to slide perfectly sideways at full throttle. Matter of fact, that's all I can get it to do ... slide 50/50 sideways... 2.3:1 torque division wouldn't do that. I don't think.
If first gear is, for the sake of argument, 4:1, engine puts out 350, total torque after the tranny is 350*4, or 1400 ft/lbs. If the rear were truly limited to 150 ft/lbs, that would mean only around 10% of the total torque were getting to the back wheels. From my experience with my 2013, it's definitely putting a whole lot more torque out the back than 10%
In snow, my 2013 spins the rears so much that even with full TC and ESC on, the rear swings around real easy just by pushing the go-pedal a little too far. On dry pavement, without TC or ESC, I can get it to slide perfectly sideways at full throttle. Matter of fact, that's all I can get it to do ... slide 50/50 sideways... 2.3:1 torque division wouldn't do that. I don't think.
typhoon5000
Ferd Enganear
I think I said this in another thread, but 150ft/lbs of torque AFTER the transmission is a piddling amount of torque. I can see 350ft/lbs total from the engine, so 350:150 means 2.3:1 torque difference between front and rear, but 150ft/lbs total to the rear no matter what? Not feasible. Would love to know where that number comes from.
If first gear is, for the sake of argument, 4:1, engine puts out 350, total torque after the tranny is 350*4, or 1400 ft/lbs. If the rear were truly limited to 150 ft/lbs, that would mean only around 10% of the total torque were getting to the back wheels. From my experience with my 2013, it's definitely putting a whole lot more torque out the back than 10%
I would assume he's referring to 150 ft*lbs of engine torque, aka before being multiplied by any gearing.
Night hawk
Member
Drove home with a Blizzard going on today in New England, pretty happy with the SHO AWD system. Tracked right along with no drama.
krewat
SHO Member
But with the clutch being all the way at the back of the car at the end of the driveshaft, it just doesn't make sense to have read that number somewhere. It can't be the amount of torque that the duty-cycled clutch would see, so for someone, Ford/JTEKT/ZF/whoever to spec that somewhere is just strange. Occam's Razor and all that.
Same here. Long Island, I was out in it last night as the sleet turned over to snow. Went back out, and there was 2 inches of snow on the car after only 20 minutes. Even with the Goodyear Eagle F1's on it, it still just goes when I hit the gas. Too much gas, of course, it starts to need traction control, or if I feather it just right, it spins all four at the same rate and slides nicely :woo-hoo:
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EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
The engine has approx 350 lbs torque according to Ford. The loss from the AWD drive train is around 25% or higher, so if the rear can handle 150 lbs, it can actually can handle 150 lbs of the actual DT Torque of around 260. This would be in the neighborhood of 60/40 max to the rear in a stock vehicle. My Flex AWD dyno testing showed a max of 409 lbs of Torque at the wheels at an outside temp of 75 deg. When it was cold, I would have had more than this. Some Livernois vehicles running larger turbos and 100% methanol spray are putting out over 500 lbs of torque on the dyno. One of Torrie's customers is running a wet Nitrous system, that will likely have even more torque than that. So, traction with our AWD system definitely is limited by the rear clutch system.
sho'noff
shoverdrive
I would look for a rear and center differential to install after the warranty is ended.
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